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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

here's some good news that came in too late for inclusion in this post. the Supreme Court told that priggish busybody Kim Davis to go fuck herself.

"Supreme Court denies Kim Davis' petition to overturn same-sex marriage ruling"

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/supreme-court-denies-kim-davis-petition-overturn-same/story?id=127375530&cid=social_twitter_abcn

I expected the opposite to happen.

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CroneEver's avatar

I think it finally dawned on Clarence Buy-me-an-RV Thomas that overturning same-sex marriage would lead directly to ending biracial marriage, and he needs Ginny to do his dirty work, like trying to overturn elections and harassing Antia Hill.

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Linda Weide's avatar

I don't think he cares to save interracial marriage, even though there is really no such thing. We are one race, human with different physical characteristics which is not our race, but tie us to a region of the earth where our ancestors were and people who looked like them adapted to an environment.

Clarence sees himself as an exception so he may think that the rules of being "Black" do not apply to him. We shall see if the White Supremacists more fully take over how that will work.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

"We are one race, human with different physical characteristics"

Exactly right. Racism is a manufactured construct meant to divide us...and sadly it's working.

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Linda Weide's avatar

It works for those who let it. In my family, which has many different skin colors, religions etc... we put "Human" for race on the Censes forms. And, we have been personally interviewed both in my family growing up and my family of marriage by a census person directly. My mom also put "human" as her race/ethnicity on her Green card application, and it got sent back twice, but she resubmitted with the same response and the third time worked. And, although I would have been offered even more scholarship money because I had very high SAT and ACT scores back in the day if I had put my "race" as something non-white, I did not choose to select any of the categories they offered. ✌🏽

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Linda McCaughey's avatar

Can we enter 'Homo sapiens sapiens'?

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Linda Weide's avatar

Yes. The Field Museum of Natural History has a good Evolution Exhibit that helps with that some.

In my last job, when they wanted us to fill out our "Ethnicity" I wrote in "German-American. They changed that to "Other" when I checked on line. The people that have set up our society cannot think out of the holes they have dug. My colleagues would justify continuing to use racist terminology by saying, so that people understand. Oh we understand all right. Just as I told them to remove my picture that they did not get my permission to use next to my name on their website in writing and that I would hold them responsible if someone stole my identity.

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Judy Luchsinger's avatar

I always put 'Human' when a form wants my race.

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PTW's avatar

I am stealing this, Linda.

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HI2thDoc's avatar

Yes. There is only one homo sapiens.

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Rosemary Orlandi's avatar

Clarence hates black people, he is as ugly on the inside as he is on the outside.

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Linda Weide's avatar

Clarence pretty much hates all people that are not greasing his pocket with lots of money and showering him with illegal gifts.

However, as my daughter says, "he has self-loathing!"

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Bonnie Council's avatar

Exactly. Who he really hates is himself.

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Angie Longenecker's avatar

To his defense, it is hard not to.

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Linda McCaughey's avatar

Thank you!! I have been trying to explain "no-race" to people for decades.

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Linda Weide's avatar

Linda, I taught "one human race" to my students in 3rd, 4th and 5th grades for a long time. Amazing how they get it, and then have to explain it to their parents, who have already fossilized a White Supremacy vocabulary to talk about people.

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Linda McCaughey's avatar

Funny how the only honest to god "facts" are whatever you wish were true, isn't it?

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Linda Weide's avatar

We also read a children's book where there were characters "passing." We discussed that anyone who claims to be "White" is in essence passing. Yes. I could have these conversations with my students, and my boss, who was from Mississippi, had no idea what was going on in my classroom. She would not have understood most of our discussions from just popping in anyway.

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Mary Hall's avatar

I like to use eggs as an example. On the outside, some eggs are brown, some are white, some are tan, and some are even blue or green, but inside they all look the same.

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Bonnie Council's avatar

My mother would always very matter of factly tell us kids, whenever we tried to understand why so many white people were making life hell for so many black people (we were at the time living in Birmingham, AL during the 1960s civil rights movement), "we all have red blood." It's such simple logic. Yet seems to make no difference to those who want to believe their whiteness makes them better than anyone else.

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The Rented Mule Project's avatar

and while some eggs can be rotten on the inside, you can't tell that from the color of the shell and eggs of any color can be rotten.

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Linda McCaughey's avatar

Terrific!

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Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

I'm shocked by the denial of history in this thread. We can pontificate to our heart's content about how we're all one race, but let's not ignore the uses to which humans have put differences in color (and other physical characteristics) or religious beliefs or ethnicity or nationality (whatever that is). Racism didn't come out of nowhere. It justified the enslavement of Africans in the Americas, and the genocide of the non-white peoples who were here first. Its close relative, antisemitism, justified the persecution and genocide of Jewish people in Europe. The "all one race" theory, true as it is, didn't matter a good goddamn to any of the perpetrators.

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Linda Weide's avatar

Susan, why do you care what matters to perpetrators more than people like me who live with racism all the time? Why should I not determine what I am and who I am what what I am saying it the truth.

I am not a history denier, but just as people have been renaming statues that are named after racists, and changing the names of mascots and holidays that are offensive, using truth is important when talking about race. This is now!

Whether or not it is shocking to you, it has not helped any of us who are not considered "White" to be given these labels. Seems like it has been obvious to people like me who many refer to as "Biracial" that the ideas attributed to race are a bunch of Hooey! I knew this as a little child. I am not biracial, I have one race and it is human and just because racists like to make it otherwise, doesn't mean that using their terms improves the quality of my life.

Some of the best materials on Race as a social construct come from "Facing History, Facing Ourselves" a program designed to fight racism, anti-semitism and extremism with workshop, materials, and teaching tools

https://www.facinghistory.org/.

Why should I embrace anyones need to fallaciously categorize my skin color as my race? People always say, if we don't continue with the racist terms we have we cannot help people gain equality. Look! It has not been working to have these terms and gain equality. Racism and antisemitism are on the rise. So, to do it that way, so it does not seem a superior way to me.

By the way, today is the 89th anniversary of Kristallnacht.

Counter Extremism Project Marks the 87th Anniversary of Kristallnacht

(New York, N.Y.) — The Kristallnacht (“Night of Broken Glass”) pogrom transpired across Germany 87 years ago. On November 9–10, 1938, the Nazi Party’s SS and SA, along with German civilians, unleashed a wave of organized, systematic violence—the first organized instance sanctioned by the Nazi government—which killed at least 91 Jews and destroyed thousands of Jewish-owned properties and synagogues. Coupled with the mass arrest of more than 25,000 Jewish men sent to concentration camps, Kristallnacht marked a turning point in the Nazi regime’s systematic oppression of Jews which eventually resulted in the Holocaust, ultimately claiming the lives of two-thirds of Europe’s Jewish population. 

Marking the 87th anniversary, Counter Extremism Project CEO Ambassador Mark D. Wallace stated: “Today, the rise of extremist ideology reminds us how quickly hatred, when left unchecked, can spread and radicalize societies. Support for terrorist groups and violent antisemitism are on the rise, often unchallenged or even encouraged. With each act, whole societies are desensitized, raising the threshold for what society is willing to tolerate. Kristallnacht is a day to remember and honor victims and take decisive action to prevent such atrocities from happening again. That means confronting hate before it takes root.

“As part of its effort to eradicate growing extremism, CEP has re-purposed the home of Rudolf Höss, the commandant of Auschwitz, into the Auschwitz Research Center on Hate, Extremism and Radicalization (ARCHER) at House 88. ARCHER will confront not just the consequences of extremism but the quiet, everyday mechanisms that allow people to rationalize, normalize, and ultimately encourage it. Through education, research, advocacy, and art, ARCHER at House 88 serves as a beacon for confronting the mainstreaming of the extreme.”

Click here for more information about CEP’s new initiative to fight antisemitism and extremism, the Auschwitz Research Center on Hate, Extremism and Radicalization (ARCHER) at House 88. https://archer.counterextremism.com/

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Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

It's very possible to be fully aware of who you are and be aware at the same time that those who have more power than you can do you harm. This applies across the board, not just to race. It definitely applies to sex, and to law enforcement @ demonstrations. It applies to children vis-à-vis adults. As a city girl who got around by bus, bike, and on foot, often after dark, I paid close attention to who else was on the street at the same time. (These days, walking in the woods at night, I'm more concerned with skunks.) There's a great James Tiptree Jr. story about what can happen when you're oblivious to the potential dangers around you: "Your Faces, O My Sisters! Your Faces Filled of Light!" (1976).

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Linda Weide's avatar

As someone who has lived her life in brown skin, I am fully aware of this.

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

Thank you. I was starting to think I was the only one who found this conversation ridiculous.

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P123Sunny's avatar

I was told that it’s not RACE. It’s CLASS, actually. 🤔

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Class is also an artificial construct, even more so than race.

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Linda Weide's avatar

It is skin color, and eye shape, and class might play into it too. Coming from a community with a lot of super wealthy Black and Brown people, it is not just about class.

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Steve in SoCal's avatar

Cut the guy some slack. He has never recovered from the trauma of finding a pubic hair on his can of Coke.

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Peggy Hendrickson's avatar

You have this wrong. Anita Hill testified that he had done this to her.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

😂😂😂

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Robert Eckert's avatar

He has never recovered from *putting* his pubic hair on a Coke can

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Lorraine Parish's avatar

Here's a joke at the time. What's the difference between Clarence Thomas and Marion Barry (mayor D.C.)? Once has public hair in his coke, the other has coke in his pubic hair.

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Steve in SoCal's avatar

No, it was the pube fairy

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FTrump And FPutin Too's avatar

🤣🤣🤣

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

That, too, but since he'd be ruling on that one, I'd consider interracial marriages would be safe. Buy yeah, Ginny and the wives are doing all their dirty work for them.

Do you think there might be a SCJ or two in the Epstein files? I'm speculating of course, but it does seem odd that Dominionist Johnson's Dickface would fight so hard to keep them sealed.

Now what is he going to do with the government open? However will he prevent swearing in Grijalva?

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CroneEver's avatar

Always remember, it wasn't just young girls on Epstein's island; there were young boys there, too... And Little Mikey has, by all accounts, a Grindr Account.

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DJ Headthrob's avatar

Must have deactivated his anti-porn Alert bracelet.

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CroneEver's avatar

He lost it in the plane, I'm sure...

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DuduLovesBubu's avatar

TSA seized it when they were feeling Mikey all up and the moaning and groaning was attracting too much attention.

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Clint Opine's avatar

I expect that one of the repugs that was "going to" vote yes to release the files will now have a change of heart. This system is not working for us.

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Ethereal Fairy's avatar

It will be Nancy (panty inspector) Mace.

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Bill Corbett's avatar

Those files are behind everything they do, I’m thoroughly convinced of that because why else would they ALL work so hard to keep them under wraps. I still believe that if, ands that’s a big “if,” they are released it will blow the lid off of everything.

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Mary Greenwald's avatar

No. Thomas is against biracial marriage also....tricky way to get rid of Ginny without paying alimony!

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BDBoop's avatar

He's in favor of ending biracial marriage but apparently figures it won't apply to him as he has an existing marriage. Or something. Who knows what goes on in the mind of that psychopath.

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arne link's avatar

I can't believe that the supine court did humans a solid. WTF? How did that even happen.

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Steve in SoCal's avatar

It's the broken-clock-being-right-twice-a-day thing

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Clint Opine's avatar

To maintain (temporarily) a thin veneer of non-partisan bias. Now they get to rule that DEAR LEADER has the right to impose whatever whimsical tariffs he wants whenever he wants.

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arne link's avatar

Yes, I'm afraid that you are right'

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

That's EXACTLY how this SCOTUS works. They hand Rump a loss on a non-economic, non-power issue, just so they can turn around and rule in his favor on the things he really wants.

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A.J. Madison's avatar

Mebbe the SC decided that same sex marriage is settled law. /s for the humor impaired.

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Angie Longenecker's avatar

Probably the Dems will appeal this decision.

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arne link's avatar

Ok, that's some gallows humor right there.

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Diane J's avatar

Why would they? They Democrats are the ones who fought for the equality to allow same set marraige.

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Anne's avatar

it was a joke.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Because we're being grumpy and being Democrats, want to abandon everything because we're pissed about one thing, something Republicans never do and why we lose.

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Joyce's avatar

One thing???? Boy, do I feel extra dismissed now.

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Peggy Hendrickson's avatar

The Democrats who voted to end the shut down are the reason we lose. They have no commitment to the Constitution. It is their job to enforce it. Much of what the regime is doing is unconstitutional. We cannot cooperate with that.

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Adam Electro's avatar

Wait, Democrats fighting for something? Is that still a thing?

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Catherine's avatar

Lol, no fucking doubt 😞😠🙄

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Kay-El's avatar

Isn’t it about time for her 15 minutes of ignominy to expire?

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T L Mills's avatar

I would have thought it had expired after the first brouhaha she created. Kim Davis one disgusting human and is a real piece of work into the deal.

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

That is good news, but then there are too many legal same-sex marriages that would have to be annulled for the SC to rule any other way. But I do hope Kim Davis eats shit for breakfast this morning. Preferably her own.

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HI2thDoc's avatar

👍👍👍

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Charles Austin's avatar

Indeed!💩🥪

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Carl Selfe's avatar

I cannot bring myself into affinity with farmers. They voted for Trump. No doubt farmers would be a lot smarter had they gone to Trump University. Let farmers eat soybeans. Soybeans are a great source of protein.

“All of us who are dismayed by the present state of the union, this is no time to give up,” Biden declared. “It’s time to get up. Get up now, get up.”

If you have become overwhelmed, rely on my 2 buckets to sanity. 2 buckets says stay in the fight. We are winning with a year to midterms. If you stay in, we will shut them down.

https://hotbuttons.substack.com/p/too-much-two-buckets-to-sanity?r=3m1bs

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Linda Weide's avatar

Farmers according to this farmer are millionaires for the most part and expect a bail out from Trump. Surprise, surprise, surprise, many might still continue going bankrupt before that happens. Here is the link to her talk about why Farmers voted for Trump.

https://youtu.be/badGHJLDpP8?si=4Q1Z3DtaOhoFh7oC

I will remind you that thanks to tariffs and getting rid of immigrant field workers in heinous ways, food prices in the US, which are already high, have gone higher. In fact, my friend's daughter was just visiting her dad in the US and found that groceries were 3 times higher there than when she returned to our city in Germany. My daughter's first economic lesson in price differences was the first winter she went back to Chicago and went to the grocery store once she started attending University in Germany. I am just shocked every time I pay for food here in Germany in stores and markets and also things from the drug store, how much cheaper it is. Two full sized bottles of lotion for 2.99€ yesterday.

So, prices are already too high, and now we take away money from people to pay for it. This evil regime needs to go!

And as for punishments, I am reading in "Money, Lies and God" by Katherine Stewart that at a big Pentecostal Evangelical meeting in Las Vegas people there were suggesting that Democrats be dealt with by the Trump administration with water, rope and a heavy stone. That is what these people who subscribe to Prosperity Gospel are advocating. Violence death to all of us who are not Trump supporters.

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HI2thDoc's avatar

"I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike Christ."

-Mohandas "Mahatma" Gandhi

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Lisa K. Obrien's avatar

Ah, yes. Onward Christian soldiers!

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Kimberly Sandwisch's avatar

Yep! Pro life party! How do these hypocrites look at themselves in a mirror every day? 🤯

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Linda Weide's avatar

Unfortunately spending a lot of time listening to Pentecostal preachers and following conspiracies on the Internet is not good for developing critical thinking skills. So, they do not even get their own hypocrisy.

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Kim Steeves's avatar

Do they show a reflection when looking in the mirror?

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HI2thDoc's avatar

I hear the soulless do not have a reflection. That's why Dracula has such weird hair

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Kim Steeves's avatar

Excellent point!!!!

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Kim Steeves's avatar

Excellent point!!!!!

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G2's avatar

Thanks, interesting that Germans pay less for food than Americans. Much has changed since I lived there though I think their socialized health care system still does a very good job for the vast majority of the population.

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Linda Weide's avatar

G2, one reason I retired here is because living costs are lower. Although they are going up. Rents tend to be lower except in the biggest cities, and food costs are lower, so utilities may not be, and electronics are expensive here, but my phone service is less and transportation is less. The things I do most cost less. Tech is a rare occasion purchase, but the regular things I spend money on are less than in the US. Also, the food quality is better is what everyone here from the US that I know feels.

We created a website to post stories from Americans around the world experiences with health care, but there are laws in Germany that make no one want to put the account in their name, because of being sued. The group that was going to add it on, has not gotten back to us in almost a year, so we shall see.

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

Health professionals in the US are advising us to cut products containing sugar and/or seed oils. I went to WalMart yesterday. Try finding products that don't contain sugar or artificial sweetners. If you have been on SNAP you are definitely outta luck.

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

My daughter traveling in various countries in South America spent $50 for an overnight hospital stay including doctor visits.

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Linda Weide's avatar

My daughter was in Vienna visiting a friend, and got Covid. She has asthma and had a hard time, and so the doctor made a house call, and charged her 20€ for the visit because she did not have a European health insurance card at the time. She does now.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

It's true, soybeans are completely edible, raw or dried. The first year I was married, we had no money, and someone gave us three one-gallon jars of beans, one of soybeans. We ate those soybeans until the jar was empty, and the other two jars as well.

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Deborah Hunter's avatar

You mean multiple married Kim?

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

I like Jeff's term "fucksnoot."

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Linda Weide's avatar

Yes. That is good news. Saw that today in one of the Indivisible Abroad Signal chats. Now, if we could only save birth control which the CNs behind the Trump government want to get rid of.

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Kim Steeves's avatar

It would have been interesting if they had overturned same sex marriage. Considering Bessent is in one!

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Runfastandwin's avatar

I think it was just the wrong vehicle, they are going to overturn Obergefell sooner rather than later. we'll see.

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Kathleen's avatar

Me too, so that’s a plus.

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Angie Longenecker's avatar

Me too!

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Julie's avatar

Finally. SCOTUS does something right 1/12000 times.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

I didn't expect them to take up Kim's case because it was such a poor case. They'll shop around for a case that looks more plausible.

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Rosemary Orlandi's avatar

Thank the gods for small favors...

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Major Kong's avatar

I too expected the Supreme Court to take it up.

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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

oh look, I -can- get mad at Democrats, when it's warranted

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Wendy The Druid 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🌈's avatar

Jeff we all can.

Establishment Democrats kinda need to go. Its past their time.

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Angie Longenecker's avatar

AOC, Mamdani etc., are the future.

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Lisa's avatar

And Crockett, Moscowitz, Kinzinger, Swalwell, and so many others that are in there but seemingly have no airtime.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

No, they probably aren't, and thinking that glossy young faces=substance is one of our problems. People like Lauren Underwood, Joe Neguse, Max Frost, Jasmine Crockett Chris Murphy, Alex Padilla and Brian Schatz are the future. Mamdani is a cipher at this point — all excitement, little record — and AOC's skills are in communication, not in legislation. There are many more proven effective young politicians on our side whom we should be elevating. One thing that especially bothers me is that I think we subtract points for being Black.

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Bob's avatar

Durbin buying into this shitstick deal is appalling. Christ, he’s retiring! Likely to be replaced by Raja Krishnamoorthi.

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Eileen's avatar

Democrats can’t play the long game. Tim Kaine’s vote made me angry but of all of them I can understand why he would vote - his state is bursting with furloughed federal employees.

It’s a mess. It’s pitiful that we’re in this worst timeline possible. We were given all the information. All the lessons we needed to avoid this but we as a people are too easily manipulated by distractions. God help us.

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Mary Hall's avatar

I am convinced that T💩p stole the election. He and Eloon bragged about it.

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SeekingReason's avatar

I sent my resign-today email to Durbin, the traitor!

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

VERY unlikely to be replaced by Raja Krishnamoorthi. This is a competitive primary and Pritzker and Duckworth have already endorsed Pritzker's former lieutenant governor Juliana Stratton, who stepped down from that job to run. Congresswoman Robin Kelly is also in the race and has most of the endorsements from colleagues (19) compared to Krishnamoorthi's three. Both Kelly and Stratton have more support from other officials than Krishnamoorthi. There are dozen declared candidates although most of the rest are no-names.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Also Stratton is the only one I can find who came out with a strong statement today on the end of the shutdown: https://www.instagram.com/reel/DQ4z2yrEgES/

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Bob's avatar
Nov 10Edited

Except Raja has about 10 times the money of the next 3 candidates combined. I’ve not seen a single ad from Kelly or Stratton. The rest are no-names with very little chance of making a dent. I would point out that neither money nor endorsements are a guarantee of success.

Democratic front-runners are U.S. Reps. Robin Kelly of Lynwood and Raja Krishnamoorthi of Schaumburg, and Lt. Gov. Juliana Stratton of Chicago.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

I don't think that will matter in the end once the campaign raps up. I assume he probably has a lot of money left from his congressional stash. I think it's unlikely to be him.

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Gently, Jack Jones's avatar

It was past their time in 2016 and HRC’s dubious nomination

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DJS's avatar

They could've picked a much better running mate for HRC than Tim Kaine.

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Hollie Rood's avatar

💯‼️

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Donald Lipkis's avatar

Haven’t these Democrats ever read the Peanuts comic strips?

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Nancy Eadie Larkin's avatar

DUMBOCRATS 🤯

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Karla's avatar

Exactly, because you’re not in a cult. They piss me off more than republicans because I expect republicans to screw up.

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Susie's avatar

We know the Republicans are evil SOBs, but the Dems who voted for this are equally stupid!

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MountainBoyMike's avatar

and it's fucking warranted!

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Bob Bowden's avatar

I’m the outlier who never understood why we Dems ever thought it a good idea to play the destructive game of debt ceiling shutdown politics in the first place. We did it to obtain a five minute illusion that we have real power, even though it was destined to end with a public humiliation - or with the most vulnerable in our society starving to death, with us at least sharing the blame. Whose brilliant idea was this, anyway?

I guess it demonstrated what we already knew, that the GOP takes advantage of every opportunity it’s given to starve poor people. So perhaps this performative Kabuki theater served that purpose. However it leaves me feeling as powerless as before and now stupid and ashamed, too

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Robert Eckert's avatar

It wasn't "destined" to end in public humiliation: these 8 traitors CHOSE to make it end that way.

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Bob Bowden's avatar

Every prior shutdown has ended in defeat for the party initiating the shutdown, with adverse implications for the next election. At least the Dems made people aware that tRump is fighting to explode healthcare insurance premiums, while Dems were trying to prevent those premiums from exploding. Dems lost this battle because they don’t want to starve children and be tagged with blame for the recession that is likely coming. But as things stand now, this loss means they will win the war at the 2026 ballot box

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Nov 10
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Tess's avatar

Hope your husband recovers 🙏❤️

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arne link's avatar

Best wishes to you and your family.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

Sorry to hear about your hubby. Hang in there. 🥹

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Why are you blaming HIM before finding out what happened? We don't know what happened behind the scenes and until we do, the only people who should be excoriated are those that voted to do this. This Schumer blaming is getting old.

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CE's avatar

Democrats spoke loudly and clearly last Tuesday. Democratic “leadership” voted “no” on this. There are seven old codgers plus Fetterman who went against the will of the Party. They accomplished nothing. The ACA will never be put to a vote, and the draconian changes in the Big Ugly Boll will hurt millions of Americans. Schumer allowed this to happen. Either it would not have happened had he not given it his imprimatur (and his “no” vote was merely performative because “Eight is Enough”……..)or else he should resign because he is a completely useless “leader”.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

This wasn't "leadership" that did this, and pinning its on Schumer because he's a pre-decided villain isn't very helpful.

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CE's avatar

It was LACK of leadership that allowed this. Schumer is no “pre-decided villain”..he is the effing Minority Leader of the caucus.

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Catherine's avatar

Omg! His lack of leadership, and allowing this, and not having everyone in lockstep besides fetterman is totally his fault!!!!

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

“pre-decided villain”? WTF is that? Is he the Democratic leader or not? You can’t have it both ways.

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Joni's avatar

I wonder how many of the people slamming democrats couldn't be bothered to throw a ballot in the mail last election? Stop blaming senate democrats for the voters demanding they get in a fist fight with one hand tied behind their back....we did this to ourselves

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rlritt's avatar

Schiff is my Senator and I wrote him an email letting him know I was pissed. He should have stopped th vote, I don't care if he had to fake a heart attack. He should have stopped it.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

What mechanism do you think he could have used to stop a clown like Fetterman? I agree that it's part of the leader's job which is why anyone criticizing Jeffries here just because they're mad at everyone is so counterproductive and ignorant. Jeffries inherited Pelosi's brilliance at keeping his delegation together, from Maxine Dexter, Monica McIver and Summer Lee (most progressive) to Henry Cuellar (most conservative). he was actually trained by Pelosi to do so. And our best shot at stopping all this is flipping the house next year, not wailing about how we're going to become "independents" (which is funny given that REAL independent Angus King voted to reopen the government).

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CE's avatar

Schumer is the minority Leader. He should be able to corral his Party, and not let 8 of them sink the entire idea of holding out for extended ACA benefits. Th shutdown has been too long and too painful for 8 individuals to decide that they know what’s best, and to join with the majority in sinking the opposition. Schumer is weak.

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SeekingReason's avatar

Because Schumer wanted to do this previously. Haven’t you seen this!

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

No, I haven't seen this. Link please.

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SeekingReason's avatar

There are numerous incidents. Look it up yourself!

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Anyone who tells you to find out for yourself is lying. Period. If you weren't you'd be glad to share.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

Either he does not control the caucus, or he set this up. Either is intolerable.

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

What role has the national party played, if any. They keep asking for money.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

Good luck! My husband spent ten days in the hospital in August and still has great difficulty breathing. Doesn't move without his oxygen.

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DR Darke's avatar

I called my two Senators yesterday, both Democrats (Cory Booker and Andy Kim) and demanded they hold the line.

But...they're Cory Booker and Andy Kim, which means they almost certainly voted alongside Schmuck Schumer.

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Anne's avatar

Schumer, Booker and Kim voted against it.

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DR Darke's avatar

"Schumer, Booker and Kim voted against it."

Well, good for Booker and Kim, at least.

Schmuck Schumer? He can still go fuck himself....

https://deanobeidallah.substack.com/p/chuck-schumer-must-go-as-senate-democratic

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Ginny Hall's avatar

As leader, it was his responsibility to whip the caucus, so it doesn't matter how he voted, he let those 7 vote with GOP. Fuck Chuck. He's the wrong leader for these times.

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DR Darke's avatar

Jo JoFromJerz agrees, and shows Schmuck Schumer's culpability....

https://jojofromjerz.substack.com/p/they-had-one-fucking-job

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

Having watched the Booker marathon is this really verified or just your opinion? Please don't shatter my support for Senator Booker. I take Schumer's vote with a grain of salt at this point.

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DR Darke's avatar

Sure, Cory Booker did a GREAT job talking for a long time...AFTER it couldn't do any good!

He's the guy who stopped Bernie Sanders from bring cheaper prescription meds from Canada, so I have NEVER liked or trusted him....

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Polly Sears's avatar

We need a "Pelosi ",! Like her or not. She knew which battles counted.

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DR Darke's avatar

Yeah, if you were a Corporate Billionaire, she knew she should fight for you!

If you were a Progressive, Leftist, or belonged to a union, she was as worthless an appeaser as Neville Chamberlain....

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DR Darke's avatar

So where's the Single Payer Option Bernie Sanders was pushing for, then? Given not ONE Republican voted for the ACA? If P-Lousy had wanted it badly enough she could've forced it down the Hillary NeoLibs' throats!

ACA is a Big Insurance Gimme, and if the Republicans and Insurance Industry sat down and looked at the numbers for a minute, they'd realize they were making more money that way than they were hiking premiums because Everybody Needs Health Insurance. Also, the ACA's kept their worst nightmare, "Socialist Medicine!" ("Sca-rry, Kiddies!")

https://64.media.tumblr.com/c3c226a920fa4b4b2f305638f6517d3e/0bae52429c56bb70-4f/s400x600/b66bccd02aa5225a9b4f11d6f503c67762fbcb4a.gifv

at bay for the last fifteen years.

In a world of Nancy Pelosis? Be an Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.

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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

here's Katie Phang on bluesky to try to talk us off the ledge

https://bsky.app/profile/katiephang.bsky.social/post/3m5by7huvk22b

(1/3) This handshake deal is for a Continuing Resolution (CR) that would extend government funding only through 1/30/26, with a "minibus" of three full-year appropriations bills that would fund specific programs/agencies, including SNAP benefits, through 9/30/26.

A Senate vote on extending the ACA subsidies is supposed to occur the second week of December, but it is NOT A PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE TEXT.

The Senate still has to debate amendments & then vote for the final language. Then the bill has to go back to the House for a vote on final passage.

And then Convicted Felon Donald Trump has to sign it for it to become law.

We are far from being done, folks.

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Koko in AZ's avatar

As I wrote in response to Phang's thread, "So, what's the likelihood of the Republican House supporting that bill? Better yet, what is the likelihood of Trump signing it? I'm doubtful."

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Susan Keefer's avatar

Please call and light them up!

These are the eight Democratic Senators giving Donald Trump an end to his government shutdown.

Sen. Dick Durbin (D–IL) (202) 224-2152

Sen. Catherine Cortez Masto (D–NV) (202) 224-3542

Sen. John Fetterman (D–PA) (202) 224-4254

Sen. Tim Kaine (D–VA) (202) 224-4024

Sen. Angus King (I–ME) (202) 224-5344

Sen. Jacky Rosen (D–NV) (202) 224-6244

Sen. Maggie Hassan (D–NH) — (202) 224-3324

Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D–NH) — (202) 224-2841

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

When I called, Durbin's, Shaheen's, and King's mailboxes were full. But there are always email contact forms.

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Aleksandra Wolska's avatar

Three! When I called, only two were full. I managed to give Durbin an earful.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

GOOD FOR YOU! I'd call him a weasel, but I see no reason to insult weasels, who are attractive, useful creatures.

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Aleksandra Wolska's avatar

Thanks. I will be calling. This is an outrage. A betrayal. But also an offering of clarity - such people are the real reason why we are stuck in this horrific nightmare. They are the virtue-signaling, insufferable, cowardly enables of the rotten system that is long overdue to collapse.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

"Virtue-signaling" is an excellent descriptor here, Aleksandra.

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Kate's avatar

This is a good take too—everyone—take a breath please!! https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/a-quick-take-on-team-caves-big-win

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Susan Linehan's avatar

I like his position. After all, extending the ACA is not something the Senate can do unilaterally. Trump would certainly veto it no matter when the vote came. So the folks affected would still be affected. I actually think the shutdown has achieved its main purpose: very clear that the DEMS are the ones fighting for real healthcare, as opposed to the concept of a plan, Few people are nattering on about pronouns and other culture wars stuff. The pain of trans people, including those in my family, continues, but that is never going to be the unifying issue covering all Dems and Independents that health care is.

What this does is put health care upfront and MUCH closer to the mid terms --we could be looking at another shutdown after 1/30. AND this will be after the actual pain of the cost, not just seeing it in a premium notice, has hit. The GOP set the Medicaid cuts for after the midterms. They thought they were hiding the health care issue till then. Oopsie.

I've read that we haven't for some time had enough trained air traffic controllers. So just paying the ones who haven't quit isn't really going to solve the problem. Seems a good chance we may still have restrictions on flights. At least now it looks like Dems are pro Thanksgiving travel, fraught though it may be. If it is really fraught, the GOP owns it.

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G2's avatar

Thanks Susan that's a positive take. Hopefully further negotiations will see some money put back into ACA, SNAP, WIC, and Medicaid.

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

Yes, thank you. You saved me a lot of typing. Some of these aging Democrats have years of experience and knowledge. Can’t we stop criticizing them for growing old and look into their reasoning and motives instead? I’m still doing my homework on this one.

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

THEIR JOB PERFORMANCE HISTORICALLY SUCKS. They did enrich themselves quite handily though.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

All 8 betrayers have taken money from the airlines.

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Kate's avatar

Oh this is helpful.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

"extending the ACA is not something the Senate can do unilaterally. Trump would certainly veto it no matter when the vote came" Not if it was part of the bill to reopen the government: Trump wouldn't want to take the full blame for that in a way that could not be lied about. That is why it was essentially to attach the subsidy renewal to the main bill.

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Susan Linehan's avatar

the main bill (the BBB) was already signed on July 4th. What needs doing and signing are the appropriations bills. Because of the way the BBB was signed, those appropriations can's be filibustered. The "deal' doesn't pass the whole budget. It is specifically created appropriations for PART of the budget. This is only a CR, not a passing of the money for the new fiscal year. Another kick the can.

Of course Trump would refuse to sign an extension of the ACA subsidies. He HATES the ACA and anything to do with it. He'd find a lie, probably his "concept of a plan coming in a mere two weeks"

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Robert Eckert's avatar

By the "main bill" I mean THE CONTINUING RESOLUTION TO REOPEN THE GOVERNMENT. I thought that was obvious. The subsidy renewal could not be separated from that.

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Kate's avatar

You are conflating two different things…jesus christ this is so tiresome.

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Susan Linehan's avatar

They seem to have authorized certain specific budget items, not the whole thing. So they have another chance to shut stuff down

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

Are you saying "Don't let the turkeys get you down?"

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Susan Linehan's avatar

or "it's NOT the end of the world as we know it." Democratic messaging should be "we know that the House and Trump won't act to keep your out of pocket insurance expense down, so we decided to at least to let you have transportation at Thanksgiving and Xmas. We can stop everything again at the end of January if they won't see reason on the ACA."

Keep in mind that the end of the subsidies does not by itself make premiums themselves go up. It just makes the part of the premium you PAY go up. Sadly, because of the uncertainty many insurers are anticipating the loss of "healthy customers" leaving a pool of less healthy ones. THAT will end up making premiums higher because they are ALWAYS based on the actuarial experience of the pool of folks insured.

That's what the point of the "Universal Mandate" was, an incentive for even the healthy to be in the pool, lowering premium for everyone. The Extremes scotched that. The subsidies were a substitute.

That GOP "talking point" about ER's being packed with immigrants? They will be even more packed with the young and healthy who forgo insurance and then sprain their ankles or develop a funny rash.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

This is the writing of someone who's desperately trying to pull a silver lining out of an unmitigated disaster. Pure Pollyanna.

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Kate's avatar

I posted this too! 😃

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Anne's avatar

the author is more optimistic than I am. But still, made me realize it's important to keep voting... we gotta get progressives into the House and Senate. (I'm in Rep Marie Gluesenkamp Perez's district - she is so "blue dog" she's almost a Republican- local democratic party is already saying we can't do any better....)

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

I’m “represented” by John Cornyn and Ted Cruz and surrounded by MAGAts. I know what Hell looks like.

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Kate's avatar

I am in floriduh…so…yeah.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

The MAGA propaganda machine works 24/7, and has proved to be perennially better than Dem messaging. I think it's a mistake to assume that the Rethugs are going to be blamed by the majority of people for skyrocketing healthcare costs, considering how ill-informed the general public is.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

Also, the Dems make no unified, concerted efforts to get their messages across. They have some excellent communicators (e.g., Newsom, Pritzker), but when it comes to party leaders and disciplined messaging, forget about it.

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Kate's avatar

Funny you show up now…where have you been the last year?

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Robert Eckert's avatar

SO??? Do we actually care whether Democrats or Republicans get blame for the disaster, now that the 8 have ensured that the disaster will occur? Does it even matter if the Dems win next year, if they are going to continue to be useless?

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Susan Linehan's avatar

tell me how the disaster could have been averted. Assume Senate says yes: House says yes. Will we need to hide trump in a closet and use his autopen to get the bill SIGNED?

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Robert Eckert's avatar

Attach the subsidy renewal to the main bill so that he cannot veto it without taking full blame for keeping the government shut down. That was the entire strategy.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

"A lot of my concerns are about narratives that discourage people from voting Democratic in the general elections" Exactly. The traitorous 8 put out a strong narrative "VOTING FOR DEMOCRATS IS USELESS" that people will hear loud and clear.

Heather's not helping: "The republicans were not going to budge" so we have to give them what they want; not "The Democrats are not going to budge" so the Republicans will have to come to the table. It's taken for granted that the Republicans will always be solid while the Democrats will always cave.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

Jeff, this was one of your best columns. Late yesterday and last night, when Aaron Parnas was posting on this, the comments were rabid. People were screaming right through the computer.

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G2's avatar

Jeff - thanks for the clarification.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

But we don't know what provisions are in that "minibus." Suppose the allocations for the military include funds for building new concentration camps on military bases?

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Mary Lou Williams's avatar

Time for another protest activity.

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Ann Anderson's avatar

Chuck Schumer, Dick Durbin etc are too comfortable. They will never feel the effects of anything they do as they go about their well-insulated daily lives. They got played. Ordinary people got mugged.

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Sharon C Storm's avatar

Actually, Schumer gave a speech about rejecting the bill, as did Bernie. They both voted against it too.

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

Easy to vote "no" when you have 8 who can vote "yes" and not suffer in '26. This was calculated very carefully by the Dem Senators. Schumer needs to go. He should have led all Dems to hold the line.

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SeekingReason's avatar

Sharon, that’s how politics is played by Schumer…he got politicians who weren’t running again to do this because he knew almost ALL Dems were against it. It absolutely has his signature on it.He’s been trying to extend the olive branch to Fascists since the shutdown happened. He is a detriment to the Party!!

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DR Darke's avatar

Schumer? Oppose the bill?

I refuse to believe it.

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Cyndi's avatar

Refuse all you want. Reality doesn't care how you feel, and Republicans don't care about Reality.

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arne link's avatar

As always. At this point I wonder if Schumer is compromised. Has anyone checked his offshore accounts?

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Ann Anderson's avatar

His corporate donor list would probably tell us everything we need to know.

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arne link's avatar

Probably some of the billions that we give Isreal makes its way back into his superpac.

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Charles Austin's avatar

You can count on that!

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Susan Niemann's avatar

I agree, Arne. He needs to step down....in fact Dem leadership needs to find their courage and get assertive.

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

Centrist = Worthless.

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Douglas Paul Truhlar's avatar

Might as well GLD up the tent and become republicons I guess all is lost. Where’s the gold crown it’s time he wears it all the time now all is lost.

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

Bought-&-paid-for Dems feed at the same corporate/special-interest pig trough as the Republicans. I don’t know why we can’t recognize that.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

All 8 paid by the airlines.

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Lisa59's avatar

This is all bullshit. One hand washes the other. You think they can keep a fucking secret. Washington is it's own bubble. Dems and Republicans talk about being friends when the cameras are off. I don't believe one fucking thing any of them say. There are exceptions. However, not many.

Like this was a fucking surprise. Spare my aching ass. It's all one big game to them. And we the people keep losing this game because they change the goddamn rules. They can fuck themselves sideways.

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Claire Brassert Alexander's avatar

He doesn’t even need to be compromised. He’s comfortable. Too comfortable.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Durbin is retiring. He will most likely be replaced by Juliana Stratton, although the primary isn't until next spring. But she's leading the field.

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Peter's avatar

I'm furious! And I don't think these 8 cowards got played, I think they acted with intent, timed to take the momentum out of the base after the resounding victories last week. The base flexed its muscles last week and that scared the shit out of Trump, MAGA and above all the greedy fucking billionaires that own the Republican Party and the old decrepit Democratic establishment. The rebellion had to be nipped in the bud before it grew to an all consuming fire that actually turns the government away from the billionaires and back to the people. Our job now is obvious, take no prisoners, accept no compromise, primary the shit out of any Dem that doesn't support the people first affordability agenda and elect Democrats that will serve "We the People" not Musk, Bezos, Wall Street and the rest. Oh, and we start with Schumer & Jeffries, they both suck.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Why is Jeffries getting blamed? He's been an exemplary leader,. This blanket condemnation shows why we are weaker than Republicans.

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Peter's avatar

Exemplary? Who are you kidding? Oh, and Mamdani won his district going away. Jeffries will be primaried and he will lose.

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SeekingReason's avatar

Peter, exactly. Exemplary??? WTF. Jeffries has been very divisive for Dems!

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Actually Mamdani barely broke 50% which isn't winning "going away." (I wonder if you actually followed this election closely, because no "districts" were involved; it was a city election.) Jeffries will not be primaried; he's a strong leader and a solid progressive.

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Peter's avatar

Congressional district vote counts were available. Use the f'king google. And Jeffries will be primaried, and he will lose.

50% city wide by the way, dragged down by assholes on Staten Island and Queens who love them some sexpest Cuomo.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Congressional districts are literally irrelevant in this race, no matter how the media chooses to break down the vote. And you'd better not bet any money on Jeffries losing, because he won't. BTW he has one of the most progressive voting records in this session of Congress. He's been a great leader. Democrats are way to quick too flail at everyone when we don't get what we want.

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Peter's avatar

Congressional districts are never irrelevant. Keep whistling past the graveyard. Your hero is going to lose. And we will get a fighter, not a compromiser to take his place.

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SeekingReason's avatar

Anastasia, The NY Attorney General AND the U.S.Dept of Justice found Cuomo’s sexual harassment credible! 13 VICTIMS.

He violated fed civil rights laws! You’re the only one stupid enough here to call that good leadership!

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SeekingReason's avatar

Anastasia, B.S. No one has had another democrat on the ticket who claimed himself to be independent.Cuomo should have listened to the People. They did not want Cuomo! But the spoiled brat had to be on it! Mamdani would have been a clear winner as the only Dem choice. It was Mamdani who was elected in the Primary.!

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

I have no idea what you're responding to. Cuomo has never "listening to the people" and the only thing he should have done is not run. But more than 40% of New Yorkers wanted him even though I struggle with voting for a sleazy predator just because his opponent is a soft anti-Semite, which Mamdani is, why he lost the Jewish vote in a landslide.

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

How so? How does that work?

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BluDotInARedSewer's avatar

That greasy slimeball is the worst of them. He is just Manchin in a bald cap. I will go to my grave believing that being a turncoat was his intention all along. I still think he is a GOP plant given his fuck you attitude, starting with his disrespectful attire. Jfc, he can not leave soon enough.

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Melinda Morrell's avatar

Let's see how this plays out, but if we Dems get the short end of the stick AGAIN, I will make it my life's work to end the Senate careers of these 8, dammit (I actually contributed to some of these 8's campaigns ☹️).

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Paula Dean's avatar

Melinda, none of them are up for re-election, that's why they were chosen to vote for this betrayal.

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Paula Dean's avatar

Please God, I pray you are wrong about this....though my gut tells me you're right.

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Chris Ortolano's avatar

They caved, more accurately the centrist "democrats" caved. You know the ones that claim they are the future of the party, and progressives should just sit down and shut the fuck up. Yeah, those people.

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

I'm a centrist, and I say we need to move forward - to the left is forward. But name-calling won't help anything. I get tired of being blamed as a centrist when, goddamnit, I'd vote for AOC or Mamdani in a heartbeat. But so far, your far-left, progressive agenda has only put forward exactly two good far-left, progressive candidates: AOC and Mamdani. If it weren't for centrists, Mamdani and AOC wouldn't even be in the game.

I'm pissed the Dems caved. I'm raging pissed. But stop biting the hand that's feeding you.

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rlritt's avatar

No, I think we should definitely bite it. The Democrats are too willing to trust the Republicans. Now Trump is doing a victory dance telling everyone he won. The details don't matter and all the Dems should realize you cannot give Trump's party an inch.

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Chris Ortolano's avatar

You sure chose the wrong day to pick this fight. Because I'm tired of being lectured by centrist democrats like yourself. You get called out and then you do what you always do - whine that progressives owe you something. Gaslighting at it's finest! AOC and Mamdani did it in spite of centrists because they got ZERO support from them; in fact the centrists have been trying to get rid of the AOC for several cycles. Then you make this stupid comment:

"But so far, your far-left, progressive agenda has only put forward exactly two good far-left, progressive candidates: AOC and Mamdani."

Bullshit! There have been many excellent progressive candidates, and the centrist democrats who control the party never support any of them and actively try to hurt them. They do it by threating any group or pollster who works with "progressive" candidates. They created a rule (right after AOC was elected) that any group or pollster who works with a candidate who is primarying an incumbent democrat will no longer be used as an approved vendor for any future democratic candidates. They put them out of business!

Or you have James Carville, who said very recently that he wants progressives to leave the party.

And now you try to gaslight me because a group of centrist democrats caved (as they always do) by suggesting it's somehow our fault. Spare me your hypocrisy.

So, if you are tired of being blamed for being a centrist - Stop being one! Because your hand isn't feeding us - it's slapping us.

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

Thank you. Everything you said. Centrist Democrats are clueless and lost. Jeffries and Schumer would still be sitting on their asses and telling us “it’s all in God’s hands” or writing sternly worded letters if it hadn’t been for AOC, Crockett, et. al showing them how to light a fire. And now, true to form, as always, they cave to MAGAts and continue to play power politics while Americans starve. “Centrists” need to get in the game, or GTFO.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

"....the centrist democrats who control the party never support any of them and actively try to hurt them."

For reference, see: DNC tanks Bernie's campaigns, 2016 and 2020.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

You hit the nail on the head. Republicans get pissed and then double down. I am more of a pragmatic progressive; I'd never call myself a "centrist." But I get you. I think the people going ga-ga/starry-eyed about people like Mamdani and AOC are falling for surfaces. (If I were in NYC I probably would've voted for Mamdani largely because Cuomo is a lying, two-faced, underhanded, sleazy sexual abuser.) AOC is only "in the game" because she's pretty and speaks well; she's done next to nothing as a congressperson, compared to someone like Lauren Underwood who has had 19 pieces of her legislation signed into law, most of them health care tweaks that benefit real people. She gets that we're not going to pass Medicare for All any time soon but there's no reason we can't pass a bill now to expand fitness opportunities for veterans, one of her bills.

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MzNicky in East Jesus, TN's avatar

“AOC is only ‘in the game’ because she's pretty and speaks well”

wow. meow.

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Chris Ortolano's avatar

Thanks, you beat me to it!

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rlritt's avatar

I agree 100%. AOC talks a good game, but what has she done.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

I think she's useful; she reaches people and is a good communicator. However, when people start proposing her for senate or party leader or, most absurdly, president, they are WAY out to lunch and show they don't know what the jobs entail. That's not on her though; I think she has a better understanding of her own role than some of her fan boys and girls do. She's no dummy.

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Gina's avatar

need spokespeople who get attention - can't everyone do everything

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

How would you say that the far-left, progressive values differ from yours?

I ask because what I see is that some kind of vague radicalism keeps being ascribed to Progressives, when in reality, their values are simply what most Americans want.

And IMO, there are a lot more good Progressive candidates than just AOC and Mamdani. Ilhan Omar, Pramila Jayapal, Maxwell Frost, and Ro Khanna just in the House, for example.

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

I stand corrected on one point; our values are closer than those who continue to bash Centrists think. It's why it upsets me when I get called a "Corporate Democrat". This Centrist (bc I dared to vote for Hillary) does want what Progressives want, with one exception, I'd like Progressives to get off our Centrist backs. I find they separate us out more than we them. It would be helpful to eliminate that distinction that was established in the national zeitgeist in the Sanders's campaign when his "Bros" ratcheted home "Corporate Democratic Wh@res" among other nasty names, when we weren't, simply for being for a candidate we preferred to theirs.

And let's not forget Jasmine Crockett. I'm not even sure she's Progressive - she's just a wonderful firebrand whom I think will add to this country - - if it survives.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

Yes, Jasmine is a Progressive, and yes, she's magnificent.

To me, you sound more like a Progressive than a centrist.

The problem is that Establishment/corporate Dems ARE centrists, at best. Actually, they're center/right. And they're all about the donors. For reference, see: Chuck Schumer.

Hillary has always been of the same ilk. She was Wall Street's choice, which, to me, was damning. If Wall Street wants you, it means you can be bought, or already ARE bought. Also, she was a war hawk, which was a huge negative. And she just ignored most of the country when she campaigned. Not a way to get votes.

Centrists are for keeping the status quo, and that has been a disaster since before Reagan. I think that's why they draw such criticism: they support ideas and systems that don't work for the majority of citizens. Not as bad as right-wingers, who are reactionaries, but not helpful, either.

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Joe Witkowski's avatar

The party has no future. Blow it up NOW

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Comments like yours reveal the mentality that leads us to lose. If we blow it, the COUNTRY has no future, at all. The difference between us and them and why they win is we can't handle disappointment and move on; they keep their eye on the ball and voila! Project 25 is reality!

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Joe Witkowski's avatar

Your delusion is what constantly and consistently snags defeat from the jaws of victory. Tuesday: Dems had game. Monday following: Dems are playing two-handed pocket pool again. Without an independent party with a spine (are you listening https://substack.com/@adamkinzinger/note/c-175638061?r=wflz8&utm_medium=ios&utm_source=notes-share-action ??) the Nazis/Fascists win - game over.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

I am not delusional. Anyone who thinks one move is the whole game is delusional. There are so many more aspects to this and I wish we would learn to be a little less shallow.

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rlritt's avatar

You are right about that. The Republicans stick to the plan come hell or high water. They do not waver. Getting Democrats to stand strong is like herding cats.

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SeekingReason's avatar

Anastasia, troll elsewhere. Your lack of knowledge is laughable!

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Chris Ortolano's avatar

I have no idea about that, I just changed my party affiliation to Independent.

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longtimebirdwatcher's avatar

I send money to the Working Families Party every month. Maybe I should register that way, except that my representative, Lateefah Simon, Barbara Lee's successor, is great and although I haven't heard her speak, her votes and positions are everything AOC and Bernie could want and more.

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Wendy The Druid 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍🌈🌈's avatar

And not to double dip today jeff, but

SCOTUS told Kim Davis to sit the fuck down, and shut the fuck up.

https://thistleandmoss.com/p/hey-kim-davis-fuck-you

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Tess's avatar

This was GREAT NEWS!

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Gina's avatar

Davis is ridiculous - SCOTUS awaiting a 'better' case to use

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

At long last, SCOTUS will have no decency.

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Ava's avatar

Last week, we all blasted Justice Brown, until someone pointed out her strategy responding to being in an incredibly tight spot. And now, I was angry again - until again someone has provided an analysis. I had forgotten the ACA sunsets next month; my friend was smart enough not to do that and, instead, broke it down:

"It looks like a key group of Senate Democrats are closing a deal to end the shutdown in return for an agreement from Majority Leader Thune to hold a vote on extending the ACA expanded subsidies in December.

At first glance, this may provoke a "Hunh? What are they thinking?"

But whenever the House or Senate Democrats do anything that doesn't look quite right to me, I dig deeper to figure out the reason for it. Because I don't automatically assume that the Dems are weak or complicit or stupid. I figure there's something deeper at play - and more often than not, I'm right.

And it looks like they could be the case here

Some folks are already melting down and accusing the Dems of caving because they say they get nothing out of a deal that includes

"Everyone knows the vote will fail, so they get nothing!!! Dems caved again!"

But wait - let's do a deeper dive. You will see that that getting that agreement is a brilliant strategic move, even if the vote fails.

Consider:

1. The ACA enhanced subsidies are set to automatically sunset in December if no Congressional action is taken to extend them. If there is no deal before then, they just go away on their own.

2. There was no way in hell the Republicans were going to agree to extend the subsidies, no matter how firmly the Democrats held their ground.

3. If the Democrats insisted on keeping the government closed in order to protect the subsidies, at the end of December, the subsidies would have gone away, the Dems would have gotten nothing, and people would have suffered an extended shutdown without getting anything in return.

And this would have happened without the Republicans having to do anything and bearing no responsibility for the subdidies' disappearance.

4. When the subsidies disappeared in December, people who are affected would have blamed the Democrats, not the Republicans.

5. By exacting an agreement from Thune for a vote to extend the subsidies, the Democrats are now forcing the Republicans to AFFIRMATIVELY end the subsidies rather than just letting them die a natural death. Every Republican will have to go on record, while every Democrat can be on record voting "YES."

6. While it is possible that every Republican will vote no, it is possible that the Dems could peel off enough Republicans to vote to extend the subsidies. It would only take a couple and if they put the pressure on over the next few weeks, that could actually happen.

7. If the Democrats can get enough Republicans votes to save the subsidies, that will be a huge win.

8. If the Republicans stand firm and vote no, THEY will own the expiration of the subsidies, not the Democrats.

The bottom line is that the subsidies were going to end in December, no matter what the Dems did. But now, if this deal goes through, if they do end, it will be because the Republicans voted not to extend them, not because they quietly went away. And if they can get enough Republicans on board - which is more possible than it was even just a week ago - they will save the subsidies

The vote will ensure that either the subsidies are extended or the Republicans' fingerprints are all over the expiration - neither of which could happen without holding a vote.

So, I think we need to back off of the condemnation and attacks and shift our focus toward what we can do to help the Democrats get the Republican votes they need to extend the ACA enhanced subsidies.

Of course, I could be completely wrong in my analysis. I don't yet know what the underlying reasons are or the ramifications will be.

But drawing the conclusion that the Democrats are operating with a smart strategy is far more logical than assuming they are clueless traitors.

I have more than enough reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think we all should."

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Joe Witkowski's avatar

If/when the government reopens:

• Release the Epstein philes you fucking pedophiles

• Hang Mike Johnson

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arne link's avatar

He should get a full immersion baptism with extra time under water.

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

I’d pay to watch that!

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Lisa K. Obrien's avatar

While underwater, maybe he will take time to reflect on his misdeeds, and re-dedicate his life to Jesus.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

Tarring and feathering is my preferred solution.

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SeekingReason's avatar

👍🏼👍🏼

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Tess's avatar

I sure hope you are right! This would give the dems some leverage I would think….

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Ava's avatar

Without votes, there is no leverage. However, it forces the GOP to deal with the ACA in the light: they wanted the shutdown to last through December so the ACA would automatically sunset - without anyone noticing that was their intention. They understand what last week's elections mean for the interim elections next year; this keeps their miserable intentions and actions in the light.

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Jeanne Leduc's avatar

We just saw what they did with leverage...🤬

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

Totally agree. This doesn't look good, but the melting down and flailing and the childish "I'm an independent now" and "I'm turning my back on all Democrats" doesn't make us stronger; it sabotages us at a time when we're on the precipice of authoritarianism and fascism. I'm not happy either, but this Daily Kos-ian knee-jerk wailing and condemnation of EVERYONE (seriously — Jeffries? He's been an exemplary house minority leader) tears us apart and makes us weaker.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

No, we're not on the precipice. We fell over the precipice months ago. The question is whether we will bother to fight back.

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KSE's avatar

the eight who defected are surely the ones tearing apart. they ignored election night mandates and crossed party lines. don’t blame the comment section.

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Susie's avatar

Thank you. I learn so much from the folks who read Uncle Jeff. 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

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Kay's avatar

And the bonus is the Adelita Grijalva will be sworn in. I completely agree with your take on this scenario. Next let’s do greedy insurance companies making bank on everyone!

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Douglas Paul Truhlar's avatar

Ava, thank you. This is the first comments section that I largely disagree with, people here are throwing their own party under the bus, big mistake. Let’s see what happens in December, I can’t believe how fickle this group can be it’s like so many just flicked a switch and left the party I’m disappointed.

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

Hell, yeah! Sometimes experience pays off.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

"There was no way in hell the Republicans were going to agree to extend the subsidies, no matter how firmly the Democrats held their ground." When Republican Congressmen couldn't fly for Thanksgiving any more than the rest of us proles, they would start to think differently. We have to stop thinking, oh well if the Republicans are stubborn we just have to give them their way, while if we are stubborn it won't work so we just have to give them their way.

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Kate's avatar

ALL OF THIS! Thank you!

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DR Darke's avatar

Only the Dems ARE Weak, Complicit, and STUPID!!!!!

Stupid!

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PlasticFish's avatar

+1, Interesting.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

If I'm understanding you correctly, you assume Thune will actually bring the issue of ACA subsidies to a vote. Why would you think he'll keep his word?

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Ava's avatar

It doesn't matter. What he wanted was to let the ACA sunset in December without fanfare. Now his choices are: let it sunset, with Democrats trumpeting the GOP's decision to permanently eliminate it or to take the roll call vote - and the GOP is seen defeating the extension of the ACA. Either way, people see the GOP taking away their healthcare.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

You'll see it. I'll see it. The rest of the people on this forum will likely see it. The general public? Not so much. It'll just be more, "the government sucks," without much distinction between the parties.

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Ava's avatar

Then it becomes our responsibility to make sure we broadcast this loudly everywhere. There certainly has been plenty of volume today: our task would be to harness that to explain what we all have lost through their action.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

How will "we" broadcast this to the general public? Who is going to explain? The Dems never, but NEVER, come through with an all-out messaging campaign. In my 50+ years of following politics, I've never seen anything like that from Dems.

No, with only a few notable exceptions, what they'll do now is whine some more about being powerless, grumble about the mean MAGAs, and continue to collect their paychecks.

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Tess's avatar

“Shitweasels” galore….I’m just shaking my head…happy hour might come sooner today (this morning????!!) Geesh

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Angie Longenecker's avatar

Every fucking victory into fucking defeat. No more money to the Dems. Not one cent more!!

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Patricia Harmanci's avatar

Angie— me too. Not one more cent to these Democrats—and they still hound me for more money!

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Leigh Hamilton's avatar

I just told my Dem Senator to go fuck himself, literally, and that I wanted my campaign contribution back, and that I'd vote for a cardboard cutout before I'd vote for him again.

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it again. I live in Texas, represented in the Senate by Ted Cruz and John Cornyn. Feeling betrayed is a way of life here. Why not look a little deeper, check out the facts and try to understand what the strategy is?

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Robert Eckert's avatar

We know what the strategy was: make sure the subsidy renewal is part of the bill to reopen the government. The strategy was just abandoned.

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Patricia Harmanci's avatar

Good for you, Leigh! You told him! I wish every Dem senator on that list (and one Independent) would get the same message from their constituents!

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Diane J's avatar

It depends on the Democrat, mine weren't among the 🫏🕳 perks who caved. Them I will donate to.

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Patricia Harmanci's avatar

You are correct!

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Frosty McGillicuddy's avatar

There IS one good thing that will come out of this. The House will have to reopen, they will swear in the Democratic congresswoman and the Epstein files will be released.

Oh! This also showed how CRUEL the GOP is. Doing their best to starve their fellow Americas and deprive them of the six dollars a day they receive in SNAP benefits.

Appalling is an understatement.

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BluDotInARedSewer's avatar

I hope you are right but who’s to say these same Dems won’t capitulate on that vote, too?

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

Exactly!

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Tom Halstead's avatar

The Clinton/Kaine ticket failed in 2016 largely because of Clinton and Kaine. Premature capitulation is a hallmark of the moderates, whose spineless and pointless approach to governance once again enables the fascists. Let this be their fucking swan song.

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Mary Hall's avatar

Reminder that Clinton/Kaine got three million more votes than T💩p. They failed to win the election due to strategic fkery from Russia, James Comey's last minute BS email investigation, and Reich-winged propaganda from the usual sources. If we are ever to become a real democracy the GD Electoral College must fking die.

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Tom Halstead's avatar

We’ll need actual Democrats, not the likes of these seven Manchinites, to bury the Electoral College.

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

The Electoral College is a weapon of the Republican Party. It is anti-Democratic. It is anti-democracy.

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Anastasia Pantsios's avatar

It didn't fail. It won in a landslide: it won actual VOTERS, the only thinking entities than respond to candidates. It lost because of an antiquated system used only in the U.S. that can overrule the voters: the electoral college. The electoral college has no opinion about candidates or their positions.

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arne link's avatar

I doubt that Holy Mike will ever swear Grijalva in. Repubs will just stonewall and Dems will whine.

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

Agree. The Epstein Files will be run through a shredder and released as confetti before there's an uncontaminated public viewing.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

If he does not swear in a duly elected Representative, his "House" is not the constitutional House of Representatives and nothing it passes has any legal force. I know Republicans have become accustomed to ignoring the laws but this might be chillier waters than they want to dip their toes into: it would undermine what is left of their power in a very fundamental way.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

How so, about undermining their power?

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Robert Eckert's avatar

By raising a legal issue about whether they even count as the House of Representatives anymore or have any legislative authority at all.

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Denise Donaldson's avatar

How would you foresee that playing out? That is, bringing a legal case? Who would do it? Would Johnson abide by any resulting ruling?

I'm not trying to be difficult; I'm just trying to understand how any accusation of impropriety would be lodged, and how it would be pursued. Not sure how/if the Dems would figure in. It's an interesting thought experiment.

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Robert Eckert's avatar

There was already a legal case pending challenging his right to refuse to swear her in. It could have gotten very ugly, but Johnson mooted the case by agreeing to swear her in as the first order of business.

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Douglas Fuller's avatar

Who was the idiot that thought having Trump speak before a NFL crowd was a good idea? Of course he was going to be booed and rightfully so! Handlers, put him in a home, where he belongs or better yet prison

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PTW's avatar

Donnie does what donnie wants. No one “handles” him this go round. He wanted to make a show of “supporting the troops” around Veterans Day, so he went to a big public gathering, got his fat ugly face on Fox and commandeered the booth for a few minutes. And got loudly booed and flipped off.

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Koko in AZ's avatar

Why the fuck did they put so many Americans through hell over the weeks of the shutdown only to cave with nothing in return? I'm so fucking pissed!

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Sharon Hudnall's avatar

This is the conclusion the general public will draw from all this, not that Dems are "ingeniously playing the long game." Mumblepegs Durbin, motherfucking Fetterman, and the other six losers who capitulated are not brilliant strategists.

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Beth's avatar

I would sell my husband to see "2028 - Obama vs trump" so trump can FINALLY get beaten by the man he keeps thinking he actually did run against.

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Gina's avatar

I'd exhume my husband and join you...huh, too bad I didn't get him made into a diamond (which he was, more or less, in life)

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Pam Humphrey's avatar

Same here. He’d be all for it, too.

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KSE's avatar

this morbid expression of love warms my shriveled black little heart 🩵 (i mean it. he was clearly quite a guy)

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