there is a line of thought that shutting the govt down will just make it easier for the space nazi to wreck shit even faster. I don't agree, but at least it's a point of view
there is a line of thought that shutting the govt down will just make it easier for the space nazi to wreck shit even faster. I don't agree, but at least it's a point of view
I have seen more than 1 pundit say that when the fascists are taking over, the sooner you stand up to them, the more likely you can prevail against them.
I actually can see that point of view. If the govt shuts down, it may never reopen. This way, in six months, maybe something will change if Republican lawmakers become more afraid of losing votes than of trump. I know a lot of damage will happen in six months. The CR sucked. But closing down might suck more.
Until they ( MAGATS) feel the pain, there is no "waking up" from this. Bring on the pain to minimize to tsunami of bloodshed it will take if we don"t turn this NOW !
It's like choosing between a firing squad and a rope. They got us boxed in a corner. I do think Biden knew this was coming. That's why he was trying to install as many judges as possible. And put up as many guardrails as he could. We need to get out of the emotional lane. Be pragmatic. Layout our 2028 plan. Shitpants and his love knuckle buddies are shitting in high cotton now. We'll see how long the public's tolerance holds out. There's no way this kind of criminal dysfunction can last 4 years.
Tough getting a read around the chaos and confusion of this Alexsandr Dugin inspired Putin autogolpe Lisa! We know that many of our duly elected are traitors, blowing the whole damn thing up might be the best alternative available! Putting this country in the rear view mirror is my preference, but difficult not knowing if SS payments will soon disappear. Perhaps communal living will make a return, I’ll be damned if I can figure out a solution to the willfully ignorant problem that plagues’Merikka!!
My limited understanding is only "essential" federal courts would be functional. No Civil cases. That's due to limited funding. Could Shitpants tell the DOJ which court cases are essential to him? Today we have access to the courts. Tomorrow maybe not. None of this is looking very good.
It won't. We'll be in Russia's hands long before the 4 years is up. Putin's counting on that anyway - he, like us, doesn't see trump still having cognizant thoughts in 4 years. (Or even 4 months.)
Or you could see it like the sooner it shuts down the sooner people wake up. That is all that WOKE is, is being alert and figuring out what is going on. No wonder MAGA leaders are against it. They want their voters to be dazed and dumb. A shut down government is going to take care of that, sooner or later. Now, we have punted things down the road and allowed Musk and Trump to continue implementing Project 2025, ignoring the courts, and daring someone to do something about them making these totally illegal and treasonous moves to help Putin out.
Only, I don't know if Putin is helped out. Putin just poked the sleeping giant. The rest of Europe is waking up, people are taking to the streets as they feel their governments are being influenced by Putin's propaganda and his alliance with Trump. France has stationed a nuke by Canada. Guess who it is easily aimed at? Trump is having too much time on his hands to deal with getting the US into foreign messes, and I live in Germany. A shut down might have occupied him domestically. No one is helped by nuclear war, but there is nuclear escalation because of what Trump is saying and doing.
Like the rest of Europe, Merz got Trump's number. Others in Germany did too. I may not like Merz, but I recognize that he is getting into the mode of okay, Donald Trump does not know why Germany is not supposed to have a strong military, and be a leader in military conflicts, so we will go ahead and be that again. I am sure Putin remembers. So, does everyone else in Europe, and now Europe is going to lean into developing a competitive force and weapons. May not be there now, but they have a great role model in Ukraine.
Look at Ukraine. They have been amazing with what they have had to work with, helped by having a leader who is really bright. When I listen to European leaders I feel like I am listening to adults sizing up the situation. When I listen to Trump and his acolytes, I feel like I am listening to the dumb junior high bully and his dumb followers.
But what about meeting the moment? We've had 3 solid weeks of enraging bullshit from Trump and musk and the GOP are literally on the run from their angry constituents, the EU and Canada now see trump (not all the people here because they are rational) as an axis leader selling out his people and country, and the markets are tanked in correction territory. But they haven't had time to push enough people out of the military to assure an illegal order to move on citizens would not be refused. Wait six months, will it really be easier to kill the dragon? We just gave the GOP time to refuel at the frontline. Just for this moment, Schumer and 9 other Senate Dems any 5 of them could have voted no and right now Brian Schatz or Murphy could be giving a civics class filibuster on why this is the GOPs fault and what their voters should be able to expect from them and what they should do about being left behind. They had the moral high ground, one small point of leverage, and a willing electorate of all stripes out on the pavement every day, vets protesting in DC and 50 states this weekend. They failed to meet the moment because they have the illusion of time on their side and aren't up to the fight. Six months from now let's check in to see if they were able to shut the gvmt down slowly anyway and if the opposition hasn't been crushed. We had the momentum and they killed it. It's going to suck hard either way - at least this would have been the peaceful first attempt at real opposition. We gave up and gained nothing and now have no leverage or voice.
Yes, JoAnn, it probably will be declared. No doubt President Elmo will be pushing his puppet in that direction. What about the majority of our military that is not insane like their commander in chief? How will they respond to orders for attacking US citizens?
I don’t think military leaders have high respect for Hegseth or Trump. They see the destruction of the constitutional order and NATO, plus the non stop grift the same way we do. Just saying.
Keep in mind that on all the military bases, the news station that is watched in the mess hall, etc, is Fox News. I wouldn’t count on the military being totally up to date on the true state of affairs in the government these days.
This year's Neville Chamberlain Award for outstanding achievement in the fields of appeasement and capitulation goes to US Senate Minority Leader (sic) Chuck Schumer for his cowardly vote against cloture on March 14, 2025.
At some point, the opposition has to stand up to bullies. Better to do it when you have some leverage.
Yes, I have read several of these points of view also. Look, it’s a case of “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. Lose-lose situation all the way around. Did Chuck take the lesser of the two evils while he’s now on book tour? And, did you see Donnie say this:”Schumer used to be Jewish. Now he’s a Palestinian”. These are words sent out to his thugs to threaten Chuck. Wonder if that is why he took the stance that he did. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/12/trump-chuck-schumer-palestinian-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The 5-8 made mention of a crypto exchange with the 2 NY senators, both voted for the destruction to continue at its torrid pace Marlene!! The fact is 10 democratic senators refused to take a stand against the Russian destruction of our Republic!!
I don't think so Marlene. Do you think some of us in Northern California should try to meet for an afternoon...assuming we're all still here after the rainy season ends...
I understand that point of view, and yet it presumes a majority of Senate Rs want a shut-down. In 2021, Rs denied cloture on a CR & negotiated a clean one. Schumer didn’t even try. So now how do we explain to disillusioned Dem voters that they need to vote, that the 37 senators who opposed Schumer need to be rewarded with expansion of their numbers. Presuming, of course, there’s ever another election. Speaking of, in reconciliation they can add such gems as a national abortion ban and the SAVE (aka deny women & poor rural voters their vote) Act to the CR for an up-or-down vote. Stopping that possibility was worth the risk, too.
He’s uttered the same tired response, which could possibly be true. However, what appears to any person with a semblance of thought, Trump/Musk are destroying this republic in plain sight! “We the Serfs” need to stop this transnational criminal syndicate from destroying our democracy period Susan!!
It is a point of view that in the worst case scenario Trump, Musk and the other Kleptocrats now have the opportunity to ignore whatever they told Schumer they were going to do, and then suck even more money from the US taxpayers, and run up debt endlessly so that the US becomes a third or fourth world country, with no money, humongous debt, no governmental structure because everyone is laid off or fired, and no assets because Trump is going to sell them off. So, in other words a failed state, which means that the US passport isn't going to mean anything and people may be stuck in hell. In addition, as the state fails, and there is no oversight whatsoever to protect anyone for food, water, air, products, services, bodily harm, etc... who comes flooding to the US? The nefarious people. The money launderers, the human traffickers, the cybercriminals, the environmental criminals, the child enslavers, the gun runners, the illegal arms sellers, etc...
Probably not an option in California. We can stand on our own, and the Portland and Seattle areas probably can too, especially since we can be the 11th (?) province.
Well, it is certainly true that in government shut-down, the courts wouldn't operating so any illegal shit could be ongoing but the sane people would have to wait before getting TRO's and other courtly stuff. So yeah...that is a gruesome possibility.
I agree. His argument was actually valid. Between a rock and a hard place is no place to make a decision from that will please everybody. And I really do believe if the shut down had happened, trump would be wetting himself trying to hurry up and blame Democrats, totally and completely. But instead he had to suddenly start acting nice, for a minute. It makes me want to vomit, but so would the other scenario.
there is a line of thought that shutting the govt down will just make it easier for the space nazi to wreck shit even faster. I don't agree, but at least it's a point of view
https://bsky.app/profile/rachelbitecofer.bsky.social/post/3lkechrof3s2c
I have seen more than 1 pundit say that when the fascists are taking over, the sooner you stand up to them, the more likely you can prevail against them.
Yes that is the common thread in what they say, stand up, do it right away before consolidation of power and purges.
True Stephen, Lucid readers are well versed on this!!
Makes sense to me sooner rather than later
I actually can see that point of view. If the govt shuts down, it may never reopen. This way, in six months, maybe something will change if Republican lawmakers become more afraid of losing votes than of trump. I know a lot of damage will happen in six months. The CR sucked. But closing down might suck more.
Anne, things are pretty sucky now. How will things ever improve if we don’t fight like hell to prove them wrong?
Walt Svirsky, Repulsives blame Democrats NO MATTER WHAT! Trying to avoid that trap is futile. Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!
I've heard that the modern, profane new military version of that saying is FIDO, as in Fuck It Drive On
Ha Ha HI2thDoc! I'll pass that on to my retired Navy, husband.
👍👍
Oh! As in FIDO DOG_E
What happened to FUBAR? That seems more descriptive of the times we’re living in.
FIDO goes back at least as far as Vietnam - as does FUBAR.
Hard to fight the rw propaganda machine - ALWAYS COMES BACK TO THAT :/
😢😢😢😢😡
No fucking prisoners!!
I understand the POV of people who wanted to let it shut down. Glad I didn't have to vote.
Until they ( MAGATS) feel the pain, there is no "waking up" from this. Bring on the pain to minimize to tsunami of bloodshed it will take if we don"t turn this NOW !
It's like choosing between a firing squad and a rope. They got us boxed in a corner. I do think Biden knew this was coming. That's why he was trying to install as many judges as possible. And put up as many guardrails as he could. We need to get out of the emotional lane. Be pragmatic. Layout our 2028 plan. Shitpants and his love knuckle buddies are shitting in high cotton now. We'll see how long the public's tolerance holds out. There's no way this kind of criminal dysfunction can last 4 years.
I'm thinking the public tolerance is already sinking fast....
Tough getting a read around the chaos and confusion of this Alexsandr Dugin inspired Putin autogolpe Lisa! We know that many of our duly elected are traitors, blowing the whole damn thing up might be the best alternative available! Putting this country in the rear view mirror is my preference, but difficult not knowing if SS payments will soon disappear. Perhaps communal living will make a return, I’ll be damned if I can figure out a solution to the willfully ignorant problem that plagues’Merikka!!
You're not wrong. I can't even think today. I need a nap.
I agree. My question is, can we do better in the Fed. Dist. Courts? Do we shutdown the Courts in Gov't shutdown??
My limited understanding is only "essential" federal courts would be functional. No Civil cases. That's due to limited funding. Could Shitpants tell the DOJ which court cases are essential to him? Today we have access to the courts. Tomorrow maybe not. None of this is looking very good.
The sooner the "tolerance" tanks, the better for humanity and life on this planet
It won't. We'll be in Russia's hands long before the 4 years is up. Putin's counting on that anyway - he, like us, doesn't see trump still having cognizant thoughts in 4 years. (Or even 4 months.)
Or you could see it like the sooner it shuts down the sooner people wake up. That is all that WOKE is, is being alert and figuring out what is going on. No wonder MAGA leaders are against it. They want their voters to be dazed and dumb. A shut down government is going to take care of that, sooner or later. Now, we have punted things down the road and allowed Musk and Trump to continue implementing Project 2025, ignoring the courts, and daring someone to do something about them making these totally illegal and treasonous moves to help Putin out.
Only, I don't know if Putin is helped out. Putin just poked the sleeping giant. The rest of Europe is waking up, people are taking to the streets as they feel their governments are being influenced by Putin's propaganda and his alliance with Trump. France has stationed a nuke by Canada. Guess who it is easily aimed at? Trump is having too much time on his hands to deal with getting the US into foreign messes, and I live in Germany. A shut down might have occupied him domestically. No one is helped by nuclear war, but there is nuclear escalation because of what Trump is saying and doing.
Like the rest of Europe, Merz got Trump's number. Others in Germany did too. I may not like Merz, but I recognize that he is getting into the mode of okay, Donald Trump does not know why Germany is not supposed to have a strong military, and be a leader in military conflicts, so we will go ahead and be that again. I am sure Putin remembers. So, does everyone else in Europe, and now Europe is going to lean into developing a competitive force and weapons. May not be there now, but they have a great role model in Ukraine.
Look at Ukraine. They have been amazing with what they have had to work with, helped by having a leader who is really bright. When I listen to European leaders I feel like I am listening to adults sizing up the situation. When I listen to Trump and his acolytes, I feel like I am listening to the dumb junior high bully and his dumb followers.
I think you're giving drumpf too much credit there at the end, Linda. If there's such a thing as a two-year-old bully, that would be mango man.
But what about meeting the moment? We've had 3 solid weeks of enraging bullshit from Trump and musk and the GOP are literally on the run from their angry constituents, the EU and Canada now see trump (not all the people here because they are rational) as an axis leader selling out his people and country, and the markets are tanked in correction territory. But they haven't had time to push enough people out of the military to assure an illegal order to move on citizens would not be refused. Wait six months, will it really be easier to kill the dragon? We just gave the GOP time to refuel at the frontline. Just for this moment, Schumer and 9 other Senate Dems any 5 of them could have voted no and right now Brian Schatz or Murphy could be giving a civics class filibuster on why this is the GOPs fault and what their voters should be able to expect from them and what they should do about being left behind. They had the moral high ground, one small point of leverage, and a willing electorate of all stripes out on the pavement every day, vets protesting in DC and 50 states this weekend. They failed to meet the moment because they have the illusion of time on their side and aren't up to the fight. Six months from now let's check in to see if they were able to shut the gvmt down slowly anyway and if the opposition hasn't been crushed. We had the momentum and they killed it. It's going to suck hard either way - at least this would have been the peaceful first attempt at real opposition. We gave up and gained nothing and now have no leverage or voice.
An excellent summary
Martial Law could be declared.
Yes, JoAnn, it probably will be declared. No doubt President Elmo will be pushing his puppet in that direction. What about the majority of our military that is not insane like their commander in chief? How will they respond to orders for attacking US citizens?
That is also my question, Walt.
The military takes an oath to protect the Constitution from enemies foreign and domestic. It appears we have a domestic enemy threatening us.
But Hegseth is the Secretary of Defense, and I don’t see him defying Dumbass.
I don’t think military leaders have high respect for Hegseth or Trump. They see the destruction of the constitutional order and NATO, plus the non stop grift the same way we do. Just saying.
People violating that oath in droves. Not holding my breath
Keep in mind that on all the military bases, the news station that is watched in the mess hall, etc, is Fox News. I wouldn’t count on the military being totally up to date on the true state of affairs in the government these days.
Interesting, Sandra. How do you know this? And who besides new recruits uses the mess hall?
Are they a majority?
Critical and existential question
Fuck it, we fight.
That's what I'm expecting to happen. The question is, will the orange blob's handlers step in before he can make it official?
In his first term the Cabinet members would have. Now the Cabinet secretaries are all cult members.
The one month CR was taken off the table by whom, for what reason, it was acceptable to every democratic leader I’ve followed???
This year's Neville Chamberlain Award for outstanding achievement in the fields of appeasement and capitulation goes to US Senate Minority Leader (sic) Chuck Schumer for his cowardly vote against cloture on March 14, 2025.
At some point, the opposition has to stand up to bullies. Better to do it when you have some leverage.
Exactly, it’s likely long past the point of no return Harry!!
cowardly vote *for cloture
Yes, I have read several of these points of view also. Look, it’s a case of “damned if we do, damned if we don’t”. Lose-lose situation all the way around. Did Chuck take the lesser of the two evils while he’s now on book tour? And, did you see Donnie say this:”Schumer used to be Jewish. Now he’s a Palestinian”. These are words sent out to his thugs to threaten Chuck. Wonder if that is why he took the stance that he did. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/12/trump-chuck-schumer-palestinian-slur?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
The 5-8 made mention of a crypto exchange with the 2 NY senators, both voted for the destruction to continue at its torrid pace Marlene!! The fact is 10 democratic senators refused to take a stand against the Russian destruction of our Republic!!
I don't think so Marlene. Do you think some of us in Northern California should try to meet for an afternoon...assuming we're all still here after the rainy season ends...
That would great..yes!
I understand that point of view, and yet it presumes a majority of Senate Rs want a shut-down. In 2021, Rs denied cloture on a CR & negotiated a clean one. Schumer didn’t even try. So now how do we explain to disillusioned Dem voters that they need to vote, that the 37 senators who opposed Schumer need to be rewarded with expansion of their numbers. Presuming, of course, there’s ever another election. Speaking of, in reconciliation they can add such gems as a national abortion ban and the SAVE (aka deny women & poor rural voters their vote) Act to the CR for an up-or-down vote. Stopping that possibility was worth the risk, too.
He’s uttered the same tired response, which could possibly be true. However, what appears to any person with a semblance of thought, Trump/Musk are destroying this republic in plain sight! “We the Serfs” need to stop this transnational criminal syndicate from destroying our democracy period Susan!!
It is a point of view that in the worst case scenario Trump, Musk and the other Kleptocrats now have the opportunity to ignore whatever they told Schumer they were going to do, and then suck even more money from the US taxpayers, and run up debt endlessly so that the US becomes a third or fourth world country, with no money, humongous debt, no governmental structure because everyone is laid off or fired, and no assets because Trump is going to sell them off. So, in other words a failed state, which means that the US passport isn't going to mean anything and people may be stuck in hell. In addition, as the state fails, and there is no oversight whatsoever to protect anyone for food, water, air, products, services, bodily harm, etc... who comes flooding to the US? The nefarious people. The money launderers, the human traffickers, the cybercriminals, the environmental criminals, the child enslavers, the gun runners, the illegal arms sellers, etc...
Probably not an option in California. We can stand on our own, and the Portland and Seattle areas probably can too, especially since we can be the 11th (?) province.
Maybe but it still would have been illegal. Schumer just voted to make it legal now. Good job dem dipshits.
Well, it is certainly true that in government shut-down, the courts wouldn't operating so any illegal shit could be ongoing but the sane people would have to wait before getting TRO's and other courtly stuff. So yeah...that is a gruesome possibility.
I agree. His argument was actually valid. Between a rock and a hard place is no place to make a decision from that will please everybody. And I really do believe if the shut down had happened, trump would be wetting himself trying to hurry up and blame Democrats, totally and completely. But instead he had to suddenly start acting nice, for a minute. It makes me want to vomit, but so would the other scenario.