Sadly, there are people on both sides who will manipulate comments. I was accused here of consenting to trump's dictatorship because I am against vigilantes executing insurance CEOs.
Sadly, there are people on both sides who will manipulate comments. I was accused here of consenting to trump's dictatorship because I am against vigilantes executing insurance CEOs.
The loss of decency and common sense has unfortunately infiltrated many minds. WTF has happened even to liberals? Vigilante murder should never be condoned, no matter how big a piece of shit the victim is.
He was treated poorly by United Healthcare. His internal mechanisms failed to stop him from going beyond the legal, ethical, and moral boundaries we are supposed to abide by. It happens all the time, not only in a violent act like this one but also in many other ways. Witness the billionaires advocating for exploitation of foreign workers to line their own pockets. Too many sociopaths have caused us to be where we are now. Sad
So many people are in a state of emotional overload. I just reposted a Substack written by Stephen Fry - about a lost sock. He describes going into a rage so fierce that he shocked himself.
When we have so much painful emotion bottled up - especially over things we have no control over - it must be vent, or it will explode. If you have ever gone into a sudden, blinding rage, you know what I mean. You can only hope that a lost sock will be the trigger, and that no one else is nearby!
I read that United Healthcare wasn't even his insurance company. But after he'd been chewed up by the insurance industry he researched and found that United Healthcare was the worst for arbitrary denials.
What makes people conflicted is the sense that the deaths Brian Thompson was responsible for are a greater offense, but one which our "justice system" does not even treat as a crime. Oliver Wendell Holmes said a century ago that "When the legal system is useless, self-help is all that is left" meaning that the law needs to be seen as a valid alternative to private acts of vengeance, which unfortunately it no longer is.
Robert, I understand the dilemma here; however, common sense, IMO, dictates that we, as individuals, are not judge and jury alone. We can demand our government that the laws need to be rectified and/or changed... Gun laws are one of them!
I expect we will increasingly see disputes settled by private violence in the years to come. Demanding that our government change does not seem to have much effect. Gun laws are a great example: I remember impassioned pleas to change them in 1968 in the wake of the MLK and RFK murders, and after Reagan was shot even Republicans were onside for a brief interval but things have only regressed since.
The execution of private brutal violence against any in the way of profits has been exactly how the likes of Trump and Musk have created their financial and political powerbase. I think we shall see an increase in the mimicking of these mobster rules within the greater public though. The allowance of such high profile individuals to get away with heinous crimes for decades as a quid pro quo for greasy pole climbing by others was always going to corrode the societal suspension of disbelief in injustice that underpins on the ground local policing. Just recently in the UK an entire rail line was put out of order because a group stole ┬г100,000 worth of electric cables. I see this act as the beginning of the thieving egotism of neo liberal ideology finally тАШtrickling downтАЩ.
Here in Hawaii is a perfect example of why vigilante justice should not be undertaken. Without due process, tragic mistakes can happen. In 1931 a white wife of a Naval officer accused 5 non-white men of rape. There was no physical evidence tying the suspects to the alleged assault. Despite enormous racially motivated pressure from the Navy and white America, the trial ended in a hung jury. The husband of the accuser and accomplices, including his wifeтАЩs mother, abducted one of the accused and ended up shooting him and letting him bleed to death. They were caught attempting to dispose of his body. They were subsequently convicted of manslaughter but because they had killed a non-white and because of the perceived lack of тАЬjustice,тАЭ their sentence was commuted to one hour in the governorтАЩs office. The surviving 4 accused were never re-tried. PinkertonтАЩs Detective Agency later investigated and concluded that the five could not have assaulted her due to timeline and location facts. In the early 2000s the American Bar Association had a retrial in Honolulu and also acquitted the five. This is known as the Massie case. It shook the societal foundations of Hawaii for years to come. There are several books on the case, the most recent being Honor Killing by David Stannard.
ThereтАЩs more. Thomas Massie, his two Navy pals, and his mother-in-law Grace Fortescue decided they needed top notch lawyering done so Fortescue scraped up money from high society friends and hired Clarence Darrow. It was his last case and his only loss, I believe. This case was a lynching of an innocent native Hawaiian, much like the numerous African Americans who were lynched based on false accusations. Racism and white supremacy were so prevalent then. To see its resurgence now is sickening.
My husband's grandfather was lynched. Both sides of his family have traced their roots to the original slave holders. To us, it was never far removed .
We dealt our entire adult lives with racism and the police (for no reason), but didn't suffer for it. I often have trouble with my expectations of white folks.
Oh well, at least we shoot non-whites now. Yippee for our gun culture.
Louisiana. The NW corner. On my MILs side, they became wealthy in the late 1800s. Sent 11 kids to college, one was my MIL. Unusual for that time.
My husband's siblings became MAGAts. Go figure. We were happily rejected from our families and made our own. I am proud of my kids and their families, so it worked out fine.
Money. They think they are better than everyone else because, money. They don't like black folks. Unless they make money. I don't get it, but that's the deal. They don't care about other people but are Christians. They attend black Republican churches. Ugh.
Even with an ancestor who was lynched. Even with the overt embrace of white supremacy by the Rethugs. Even with the wealth inequality worsening. Even with Christian nationalism threatening our individual liberty. Holy shit. They are just as bad as any of the conservative (white) Christians.
WeтАЩre all a bit tetchy. I was accused on another site for being an appeaser when I deftly took apart a MAGAtтАЩs argument instead of calling him a Nazi. FFS, it was on a substack, not in the press.
I have left comment sections when they try to force you, or nag you, into not using a certain word or expressing myself in a way they don't approve of. I think you did the right thing for what it is worth.
Sadly, there are people on both sides who will manipulate comments. I was accused here of consenting to trump's dictatorship because I am against vigilantes executing insurance CEOs.
The loss of decency and common sense has unfortunately infiltrated many minds. WTF has happened even to liberals? Vigilante murder should never be condoned, no matter how big a piece of shit the victim is.
I donтАЩt condone it. But I do understand and commiserate with what drove him to it.
He was treated poorly by United Healthcare. His internal mechanisms failed to stop him from going beyond the legal, ethical, and moral boundaries we are supposed to abide by. It happens all the time, not only in a violent act like this one but also in many other ways. Witness the billionaires advocating for exploitation of foreign workers to line their own pockets. Too many sociopaths have caused us to be where we are now. Sad
So many people are in a state of emotional overload. I just reposted a Substack written by Stephen Fry - about a lost sock. He describes going into a rage so fierce that he shocked himself.
When we have so much painful emotion bottled up - especially over things we have no control over - it must be vent, or it will explode. If you have ever gone into a sudden, blinding rage, you know what I mean. You can only hope that a lost sock will be the trigger, and that no one else is nearby!
I read that United Healthcare wasn't even his insurance company. But after he'd been chewed up by the insurance industry he researched and found that United Healthcare was the worst for arbitrary denials.
As someone who listened to the phone calls of many co-workers to United Health Care, believe me, they are the worst.
Thanks. I believe youтАЩre right
I agree with you about the vigilantes executing insurance CEOs. As the old saying goes: two wrongs will never make a right.
What makes people conflicted is the sense that the deaths Brian Thompson was responsible for are a greater offense, but one which our "justice system" does not even treat as a crime. Oliver Wendell Holmes said a century ago that "When the legal system is useless, self-help is all that is left" meaning that the law needs to be seen as a valid alternative to private acts of vengeance, which unfortunately it no longer is.
Robert, I understand the dilemma here; however, common sense, IMO, dictates that we, as individuals, are not judge and jury alone. We can demand our government that the laws need to be rectified and/or changed... Gun laws are one of them!
I expect we will increasingly see disputes settled by private violence in the years to come. Demanding that our government change does not seem to have much effect. Gun laws are a great example: I remember impassioned pleas to change them in 1968 in the wake of the MLK and RFK murders, and after Reagan was shot even Republicans were onside for a brief interval but things have only regressed since.
The execution of private brutal violence against any in the way of profits has been exactly how the likes of Trump and Musk have created their financial and political powerbase. I think we shall see an increase in the mimicking of these mobster rules within the greater public though. The allowance of such high profile individuals to get away with heinous crimes for decades as a quid pro quo for greasy pole climbing by others was always going to corrode the societal suspension of disbelief in injustice that underpins on the ground local policing. Just recently in the UK an entire rail line was put out of order because a group stole ┬г100,000 worth of electric cables. I see this act as the beginning of the thieving egotism of neo liberal ideology finally тАШtrickling downтАЩ.
Here in Hawaii is a perfect example of why vigilante justice should not be undertaken. Without due process, tragic mistakes can happen. In 1931 a white wife of a Naval officer accused 5 non-white men of rape. There was no physical evidence tying the suspects to the alleged assault. Despite enormous racially motivated pressure from the Navy and white America, the trial ended in a hung jury. The husband of the accuser and accomplices, including his wifeтАЩs mother, abducted one of the accused and ended up shooting him and letting him bleed to death. They were caught attempting to dispose of his body. They were subsequently convicted of manslaughter but because they had killed a non-white and because of the perceived lack of тАЬjustice,тАЭ their sentence was commuted to one hour in the governorтАЩs office. The surviving 4 accused were never re-tried. PinkertonтАЩs Detective Agency later investigated and concluded that the five could not have assaulted her due to timeline and location facts. In the early 2000s the American Bar Association had a retrial in Honolulu and also acquitted the five. This is known as the Massie case. It shook the societal foundations of Hawaii for years to come. There are several books on the case, the most recent being Honor Killing by David Stannard.
WOW ЁЯШ│
ThereтАЩs more. Thomas Massie, his two Navy pals, and his mother-in-law Grace Fortescue decided they needed top notch lawyering done so Fortescue scraped up money from high society friends and hired Clarence Darrow. It was his last case and his only loss, I believe. This case was a lynching of an innocent native Hawaiian, much like the numerous African Americans who were lynched based on false accusations. Racism and white supremacy were so prevalent then. To see its resurgence now is sickening.
My husband's grandfather was lynched. Both sides of his family have traced their roots to the original slave holders. To us, it was never far removed .
We dealt our entire adult lives with racism and the police (for no reason), but didn't suffer for it. I often have trouble with my expectations of white folks.
Oh well, at least we shoot non-whites now. Yippee for our gun culture.
I am not racist, but I understand reality.
So tragic. What state was this in? The south?
Louisiana. The NW corner. On my MILs side, they became wealthy in the late 1800s. Sent 11 kids to college, one was my MIL. Unusual for that time.
My husband's siblings became MAGAts. Go figure. We were happily rejected from our families and made our own. I am proud of my kids and their families, so it worked out fine.
Not to sound racist myself (I am Asian American) but I just cannot see anyone non-white being a MAGAt. Makes zero fucking sense.
Money. They think they are better than everyone else because, money. They don't like black folks. Unless they make money. I don't get it, but that's the deal. They don't care about other people but are Christians. They attend black Republican churches. Ugh.
Even with an ancestor who was lynched. Even with the overt embrace of white supremacy by the Rethugs. Even with the wealth inequality worsening. Even with Christian nationalism threatening our individual liberty. Holy shit. They are just as bad as any of the conservative (white) Christians.
WeтАЩre all a bit tetchy. I was accused on another site for being an appeaser when I deftly took apart a MAGAtтАЩs argument instead of calling him a Nazi. FFS, it was on a substack, not in the press.
I have left comment sections when they try to force you, or nag you, into not using a certain word or expressing myself in a way they don't approve of. I think you did the right thing for what it is worth.