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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

tl;dr — Joe Biden had an off night. it sucks but it's not the end of the world

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Brad Yazell's avatar

Trump continues to lie unabated. It's what he does. I felt bad for Joe, and I was afraid this is what would happen. But it just strengthens my resolve to double down, ignore the screech monkeys and stay the course. Dumpy can never hold power again. Never.

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Sarah's avatar

The festering orange pustule didn’t need any debate prep because his firehouse of lies is practiced over and over again at his stupid fake rallies. Everyday of his shitty damned life he is spewing the same spiel repeatedly without an ounce of remorse and has it down cold. Last night, with Biden’s cold, he wasn’t prepared to take on the pile on of lies that were spewing from the farting bag of garbage. It also seemed liked whoever was keeping time was stopping Biden when he was speaking or responding but did not cut the mic with Captain Demento. This debate debacle will pass and have the same useless impact that everything Biden has done has had, whether good or bad.

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JOSEPH PEDALINO, JR.'s avatar

I find it interesting that now that this ‘anti debate’ is over the narrative is about how bad Biden performed and little about the overdone yam’s performance. My god there’s even a name for it ! He’s a fucking monster and just in case anybody forgot a 34X CONVICTED FELON with another 50 or so yet to be tried.

So Joe Biden stutters, no shit not news, he didn’t do well, so what ?

Joe was the only ‘human person’ on the stage last night the other was some psychopathic, syphletic animal who didn’t respond to ANY question and launched a torrent of lies and utter bullshit about post birth abortions, how great he thinks he is, also bullshit and whatever senile bullshit he has written in his tight little fantasy script. What about THAT performance ? It makes Steven King novels look like light hearted comedy romps. I’m horrified that this fucker is given the ability to run for the highest office when its been proven that he’s been and still is living a life of crime against humanity for his and only his benefit. WTF ?!

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

👏👏👏👏👏I wish everyone could read what you wrote, between you and Jeff, you put everything in perspective.

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JOSEPH PEDALINO, JR.'s avatar

Panic is not the answer. Joe Biden or whomever the Democratic Party nominates has to be elected the next president. The republicans have sold their souls to follow the cancer that is donald trump and no third party candidate will be able to get the numbers because in reality they are an alternate that is not worthy. Joe gave a great speech today, he was vibrant much like his state of the union but he wasn’t being pressured and lied about by the bully that donnie is. You cannot leave the door open for him to spew his vitriol. This race is NOT over, its just starting. I for one like the odds of beating a convicted felon who cannot open his mouth without letting lies and untruths escape like a fire hose.

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Al Ross III's avatar

Exactly!!

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Ken Hittel's avatar

But -- & I say this sadly -- Trump was "smart" enough to guess that trotting out his "firehouse of lies practiced over and over again at his stupid fake rallies" was exactly all he needed to win a non-moderated debate. Did we really think that Jake & Dana were going to relentlessly call out every lie after lie after lie? Trump didn't.

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bruce somers's avatar

Absolutely true,but how about this?? If a candidate refuses to answer your question,time to cut the mic!! Sure,Biden should of been prepared better for the torrent of lies,but CNN should of been prepared for the Republican tactic of never answering a direct question,and usually fly off to 'Democrat Derangement Syndrome',and that's exactly what Trump did.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I said the same, say "that is not an answer to the question", and ask the question once more. If they refuse to answer his opponent gets his next time.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

No one should have thought that Jake & Dana were going to call out the lies because it was made clear before the debate that the moderators would not be doing any fact checking. That’s exactly why Donny demento really went hog wild with the lying even more than usual. Gish galloping at it’s finest.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

I also thought Biden was getting less time

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Pat DeC's avatar

He was. I was timing Agent Orange. He definitely got more than his share of time. As usual, he ran roughshod over the moderators who, unfortunately, were not up to the task. FU CNN!

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Nancy Potter's avatar

The longer Trump talked, the longer I felt I was being verbally abused and bullied. And of course it was all lies, and I could only last about 15 minutes before I turned off the TV, so I didn't start throwing things at it in addition to yelling. Sure, I wish Biden had come across stronger, but maybe the more people who don't attend his rallies hear from Trump the more they'll remember what it was like having that asshole force himself on us every single day.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

It seemed like more time because Trump was louder. If a guy plays bongos for a minute, and another guy crashes cymbals for a minute, it will seem like the guy who crashes cymbals had more time.

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arne link's avatar

I felt that, too. It seemed odd.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I thought it was me, but thought the same.

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Nancy Lent Lanoue's avatar

Yes! I thought so too, Lynn.

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Carrie Quite Contrary's avatar

It was infuriating to watch Commander Crazy Pants blather on and on with non-stop lies, I vow to never waste my time on anything CNN offers because there wasn't ANY moderation and that orange pustule, now brown, was allowed to blather on and on with one lie after another, unchecked.

CNN completely dropped the ball. Controlling Commander Crazy Pants did NOT happen and it was a genuine disservice for the man who rescued us from his chaotic reign of horrors. Joe didn't need to earn my vote but I'm more resolved to encourage others that Joe is the ONLY choice, the orange pustule has dementia and another term of his ineptitude would be horrendous.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

Find out what you can do to help. Donations, post card writing, phone calls-anything that will help

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Dee Whitman's avatar

Everyone, pls join your local Dem chapter and be ready to help with anything -- voter-reg drives, rides on Election Day, canvassing for down-ballot Dems. Join Indivisible and MoveOn, and actively ask what you can do to help.

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meryl selig's avatar

And keep Biden alive and live in person engagements. Can’t keep him locked up and hidden and still get voters

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Cats🐈‍⬛'s avatar

https://votefwd.org/ is a pro-democracy non profit. Below is what they do. Please join us as there are thousands of letters to write!

Vote Forward’s flagship voter contact program trains and supports volunteers writing personal, heartfelt letters to potential voters with an easy-to-use online platform. The majority of our letter-writing campaigns are nonpartisan campaigns, supporting our core 501c(3) and 501c(4) social-welfare mission, which focus on mobilizing potential voters in communities that have historically been marginalized in the political process—such as people of color, women, and young voters. We also support 501(c)(4) partisan campaigns to encourage likely-Democratic voters to turn out in strategic states and districts.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

I went to the votefwd.org website & clicked on the “blog” button. I found that they even encourage future voters to get involved in the letter writing; those who are too young to vote now.

I think that is just such a great way to get youngsters interested in the political process. 😊

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

I’m donating like crazy to Democrats all over the nation & to 3-4 of the abortion ballot initiatives, to 2 different groups who are promoting young progressives, & last night I signed up with Field Team 6 to write postcards.

We cannot allow an autocratic theocracy to take over this nation.

I’m really hoping that Joe can do a fantastic job on Friday in his 1on 1 interview with Stephanopolous.

I already heard the good comments from some of the Democrat governors who met with President Biden on Wed.

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P123Sunny's avatar

Joe activated his base… huzzah!😇🥹

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

Fucking CNN is clearly in the tank for Trump and the rest of the media hyenas are howling. Tapper and Bash put on a disgraceful performance. Might as well be Fox.

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Lisa59's avatar

I knew this was going to be a shitshow. So, I proceeded to buy some craft beer and watch Leslie Jones Live on Instagram give debate commentary. She was hysterical 🤣 😂 😆. She stated fuck CNN, especially Tapper. She will never do an interview with them. Trying to 'debate' with a malignant narcissistic psychopath is insane to begin with. They fucking gaslight you. King Shitpants will never stop being himself. His functional illiterate base will love him to the grave. This is about democracy. The Chattel Project is on the ballot.

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Pope Buck I's avatar

Leslie Jones is a national treasure!

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Mike Hammer's avatar

He’s a sociopath to be sure

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Sharon Senkiew's avatar

Oh man-I wish I knew about this!

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Me too, I would have loved that!! 💙💙

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Theresa Palmer's avatar

I love her. Wish I had the creativity to look for other media in real time.

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Sarah's avatar

It’s very disappointing to see Joe Scarborough on Morning Joe capitulate his support for Biden as the nominee - at this late hour! Conservatives always say that Democrats are scaredy cats, but these never Trumpers are totally freaking out without considering their own behavior. We must remain steady after a disappointing clusterfuck of a non-moderated fire hose of lies and attacks from the orange leaky asshole. It was scary watching it, but even a semi-comatose Biden is a billion times more worthy and sane than a pathological demented scumbag. The Fascist GOP will show clips of Biden on their disgusting NOT news propaganda shows and the same people that already watch them will see it. Now we have to regulate ourselves and really pitch in to make our case - Biden and the government around him will maintain democracy and women’s rights. The festering orange pustule and the 2025 Non-government will turn this country into an autocracy and treat women, minorities and other communities like prisoners.

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Doc Blase''s avatar

It's a mistake to believe Scarborough is anything but a phony Democrat.

He plays one on TV because he and Mika make a literal shit-ton of money. I'm talking $8 million a year, EACH.

$16,000,000. That's a combined $307,000. A. WEEK.

No way on this green earth is Joe Scarborough a never Trumper. He would support Ted Bundy for President for $8,000,000 a year. He'd support Ronald Reagan's corpse for President for $8,000,000.

and so on.

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Jun 28
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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Oh good lord, a Republican from Florida? No wonder I don’t like that arrogant asshole & I don’t know how Mika puts up with him.

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Joanne Filipo's avatar

“Orange leaky asshole” 😝

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Laura Who's avatar

Very well said!! 👏👏

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Jun 28
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Cathy Carrozza's avatar

I never watch Morning Joe. That would raise my blood pressure too high to start the day!!

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Sarah's avatar

I can’t watch Fuks News even though I believe it’s not a bad idea to know what propaganda is being shoveled daily. This is slightly tolerable for a view inside the mind of old school Republicans and the upcoming election. I can’t recommend it to others, it’s just my way of trying to get a more comprehensive understanding.

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Doc Blase''s avatar

For me, it's a terrible idea to absorb a bunch of lying, instigating propaganda.

Lie with dogs, get up with fleas.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Thank you!

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

I have watched it a very few times, when my dogs wake me up too early.

I can’t stand the way he interrupts & talks over Mika all the time. She’s the one who needs to use Joe Biden’s line of; “Will you shut up man”

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arne link's avatar

I gave up on CNN several years ago. They just went to the dark side and had no real news.

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Runfastandwin's avatar

sadly. I remember like 30 years ago they were on their game. not now...

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Ted Turner said his biggest regret was selling it.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

MSNBC wasn’t much better. All the talking heads were freaking out, especially Joy Reid

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Eileen's avatar

MSNBC had a right to freak out. Optics matter. Communication skills matter. Biden's campaign royally fucked up. Net: Biden should be leading by a landslide. Trump should be boo'd everywhere he goes. But A.G. Garland sat on his little hands and did not hold people in high places accountable because he didn't want to appear political. You think A.G. Barr would have done that? ALL of those Jan 6ers in Congress who were running to get pardons should have been indicted. I'll bet you there's enough dirt on A.G. Barr to indict his ass. THEY knew they had broken the law. But unlike the post Civil War, they're back in power even though they tried to overthrow our government.

The stakes are high. Biden delivered to the people. HE did his job. A.G. Garland royally gave us this nightmare by not holding the criminals to account.

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Cats🐈‍⬛'s avatar

Actually, even worse than AG Garland, is moscow mitch mcconnell and his fucked up gang of repub clown show friends who all refused to vote for impeachment of #34 while they had the chance. I remember that he clearly said that the courts can deal with him. And, so here we are.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

You’re correct, all except Lawrence O’Donnell. He expressed a mild amount of concern, which many of us did in the first few hours, but remained calm & logical. I was okay with it on day one, because I think a lot of them & us were just in shock, but as of Monday & definitely by today (Wed) it’s time for them to back off of the negativity & talk of “who’s going to replace him” nonsense.

The Dem governors who met with Joe today had good things to say & were clear that they were backing him.

At least on Wed evening, there was a 2 hour break in the Joe-bashing while Rachel aired her interview with Stormy Daniels. IMO the interview was quite good & I really feel sorry for Stormy as she has been on the receiving end of that vile creature’s, & his fan club’s hate & disgusting murderous threats for over 2 yrs now. Those sorry SOBs have even harmed her animals; shot her horse with a pellet gun or birdshot.

She is in dire financial straits due to all of this & been unable to work much bc anyone who employs her starts receiving threats. She’s on the verge of losing her home.

A friend of hers started a Go Fund Me for her & I plan to donate to it. I think it might be nice if those of us who appreciate her bravery in speaking up about what happened, & for testifying against the MFer, would donate to her & spread the word around that she needs help; if you’re able to.

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Altamama2's avatar

And they’re boring! No personality shown on most shows

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Demetria Livingston's avatar

Yep. I just got a Trump fundraising email (how, idk!) saying that he “LOVES CNN”.

What a pathetic soul he is.

I’m with Biden-Harris ALL THE WAY!!!! We cannot allow a hateful liar and his hateful cronies back in the Whitehouse.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

After whining for a week that he wouldn’t get a fair debate from CNN

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shee-rah's avatar

Did you tag the email as ‘junk mail’?

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Demetria Livingston's avatar

Unsubscribed. Not sure how in the world I was subscribed in the first place.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

They spam everyone. You did not subscribe, but like all spammers when you unsubscribe that tells them your address is a good one, that they then sell to everyone and anyone. Block and report as spam always.

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Demetria Livingston's avatar

Oh, great. Thank you for that information. I will take your advice.

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Ruth A James's avatar

If you ever voted and declared Democrat or Republican it will be in court files (or at least somewhere in the courts). Then the people running just can ask for a list of registered (which ever party). I used to live in IL, if we voted in a Primary you had to declare which party. Not sure if it is still that way, but I hated that part because I wanted to vote for my local people. For instance for Judge or Circuit Clerk, Treasurer etc.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Of course they are, he is ratings gold for their republican owners, and yes CNN is owned by republican horror-show Robert Malone.

https://www.vox.com/2022/8/26/23322761/cnn-john-malone-david-zaslav-chris-licht-brian-stelter-fox-peter-kafka-column

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Claudia Green's avatar

We just got home where we watched the debacle in a hotel in Philly, tonight we watched the pod save America guys, their midnight show from last night.

They did not blame Tapper and Bash. I was surprised and don’t hundred percent agree with them, ……..

Joe and his team set the whole thing up and then a deflated Joe Biden showed up.

I guess I am writing to you to say I agree with you about CNNN But Joe Biden and his team did not bring any fight to the game THAT they scheduled and orchestrated. Let’s hope for better nights.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

It's not over till WE say it's over.

As a professional historian I know it is normal for important phases of history to go on for decades.

The NAACP was founded in 1909. Brown v Board of Education decided in 1954. Civil Rights Act in 1964.

THAT phase of US history is still being written. It's a marathon, not a sprint.

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Ransom Rideout's avatar

And remember, this marathon is never over. If you are still running, you are winning.

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

As a student of history I try to take comfort in the long view, but sometimes it's really difficult.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

One of the biggest ideas in Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings is that no fight is ever won or lost permanently. But Americans want it to be wrapped up with a ribbon in 6 months. I think it is basically true that the embers of Civil War I have flared to life.

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

We have been fighting a civil war since the beginning of this country. We are once again in the middle of one.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

We ( Dems) were asleep for awhile concerning the courts. We’ve allowed the conservatives on the SC to allow all this dark money into politics with Citizens United. Now the rich can buy their politicians & their justices

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Patty Mooney's avatar

Many of us saw it coming and tried to resist it 40 years ago. Very difficult to fight heavily-funded propaganda with a super gullible and misinformed populace.

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Pat DeC's avatar

Add it to the list of things the Dems have to end when they take both houses, right behind impeaching Thomas and Alito.

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

The Democratic Party did nothing to wake people up to the threat of a fascist Supreme Court, and now it's too damn late.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

I agree. It has been more and less heated as the decades have progressed.

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

I fear we're at the "The South shall rise again" stage. I'm going to renew my passport.

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Patty Mooney's avatar

I agree, it's been smoldering for decades. The Civil War never really ended.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

Because, just like on 1/6, the elite plotters weren’t prosecuted

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

see: Heather Cox Richardson's "How the South Won the Civil War." As Sun Tsu would say, we won the war, but failed to win the peace.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

I jumped in & mentioned HCR book before I saw your comment. One of the best books I’ve read this year. I’m constantly recommending it to others

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

I do the same thing all the time!

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

Bingo.

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P. J. Schuster's avatar

Another historian on Substack definitely agrees with you, Heather Cox Richardson & her book “How the South Won the Civil War” was a real eye-opener for me. Damned sure learned way more about our history than what I was taught in small town south Texas.

Yep, this is the Civil War mentality all over again.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

Especially when the SCOTUS seems determined to turn all progress back to the 1700’s

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Linda Fulcher's avatar

More like the 12th century, pre-Reformation, to keep the Catholics on the Court happy.

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Nancy Potter's avatar

The Lincoln Project was quoting Churchill this morning. The Nazi's looked like they were winning for a long time, and Churchill was reminding the English that they hadn't lost yet, stay strong, and it would be their finest hour.

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Charles Austin's avatar

Thank you. You might want to send a note to Joy Ried.

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Gail Dragoo's avatar

And Claire Mccaskill and Joe Scarborough.

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Charles Austin's avatar

Like that surprises me!

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Ruth Wageman's avatar

And Joe was an arrogant prick to Mika, who was sanely protesting it was rash to abandon Biden for one bad night.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

He's always abusive to her. I don't know what she sees in him.

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Nancy Potter's avatar

Much as I prefer MSNBC hosts to any other cable station, they can also be guilty of the too-quick take.

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bruce somers's avatar

Seems everyone is fond of the 24 hour news/outrage cycle.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

That's why I cut the tv off years ago. currated feeds of insightful writers is a better way to stay informed.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

She was ridiculous last night

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Abigail Norling's avatar

I don't know about you guys, but when I have a cold I'm in a total fog! And I'm way younger than Joe! It was a dangerous liar vs an good old guy president. I'll stick with the latter.

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DonP's avatar

I said this elsewhere after the "debate" last night. Every Democrat crying and moaning about Joe's performance should take a very long walk off a very short pier. It shows an utter lack of awareness of what our opponent has been doing for weeks now. In fact ever since calling for a debate, the right has been pumping up the noise about Biden being on drugs to enhance his cognition and energy. So, exactly what do these whiny-babies think the right would do if Biden does show up and has plenty of energy?

That's right! They'd yell and scream and holler about Biden's energy being PROOF he's on performance enhancing drugs and that moron from East Cornhole Red State would have brought his idiotic "No Juicin' Joe" "legislation" to the floor this morning.

And those accusations would dog Joe until well after the election, because the right has spent so much time creating this character they call "Sleepy Joe", that when Biden shows the actual energy he does have, all they can do to convince their ignoramus base that the "Sleepy Joe" guy is really Biden and this energetic one is hopped up on energy drugs of some kind.

So, in one sense I'm glad Biden didn't come out full of energy. In another, I believe there are other debates scheduled, and if not, so what?!

This was a complete shitshow of an unmoderated shout fest in which one guy spouts nothing but lies, and the other looks like he's going slow, but is steadily listing out his accomplishments and what he intends to accomplish going forward.

I'll stick with guy Number 2 tyvm.

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A R C's avatar

With all due respect, Jeff - President Biden, in no way that wasn't related to his cold, had an off night.

From today's AP [partial] headline: "Debate takeaways: Trump confident, even when wrong..."

Translation: Though trump absolutely and clearly lied each and every time he opened his putrid mouth, spewing only falsehood, brazen deceit, and more lies - again and again - his appearance was that of a very accomplished liar, comfortable with every bit of his bombastic, ridiculous, fact-free litany of ever-increasingly egregious lies. No aspect of veracity was safe from his assault on truth. No previous quote could hide from denial. No former appointee or associate who had, [after seeing the truth of trump's vile incompetence,] turned against this horrible seditionist - was safe from trump's false labeling. Even after assuring all that he would pick, "...only the finest people...", these hand-picked [by trump] people have turned against him in a way, unprecedented through American political history.

How can anyone be surprised by this? How could anyone have expected anything less than exactly this kind of border-line psychotic, vicious falsity and deceit?

Hands down; President Biden mopped the floor with this sorry excuse of a man; an accused, tried, and convicted felon who belongs nowhere other than jail. Hands down, President Biden stuck to the truth of every matter over which he was questioned, while trump couldn't invent lies fast enough to cover his own abysmal record - so he, as always, refused to answer - coming nowhere close to accepting responsibility for absolutely anything at all. If President Biden had 15 minutes to unpack, dispel, and rebuke the pure evil spewing like sewage from a firehose from the rancid mouth of this despicable sub-human,- it wouldn't have been enough. And today, the feckless, gutless media, rather than focus on the lies, and fact-checking ferociously - instead choose, the cowardly, sky is falling, bullshit that they always do.

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birdgal's avatar

Thank you Jeff. The bed wetting is off the charts crazy today. Appreciate the sober perspective.

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Louise's avatar

There were times last night that it felt like the end of the world. The President was clearly not at his best; and the orange monster was spitting out one bold faced lie after another. My favorite went something like this: Everyone agrees; every poll, every expert, that I was the BEST President ever. Scary. Literally everything the man said was a lie. I said it last night; the worst decision CNN made was to eliminate any live fact checking. CNN today, can't shut up about how bad Biden's performance was. Everyone now is saying Why didn't Joe point out the lies. I guess I was watching too closely but it looked to me like he did; but nonverbally, He scoffed, he laughed, he shook his head. My feeling was he thought live fact checking, even from him, wasn't allowed. The moderators sitting there like nothing was wrong, sent the message that Trump was right. To be honest; I'm not sure he has ever been truthful or right. He lied about late term abortion; he lied about most people wanting Roe v Wade overturned. He lied about everything to do with Jan. 6th including that Nancy Pelosi refused his help of the National Guard. And insisted it was a "small group" that went to the Capitol. He even said Biden was going to raise taxes and that he, Donald Trump, did not have the larger deficit. It just went on and on and on. He refused to answer key questions. On and on. I'll take Joe Biden on his worst day over a man who doesn't know how to tell the truth. I'll take Biden sleeping over the ridiculous, 37+ felonies, morally bankrupt, Gish Galloping POS any day.

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Rebecca Elliott's avatar

He appeared to me to be physically unwell. A heavy cold, or some such. Nothing more nor less than human. AND, given his successes throughout this past term, I'm hardly likely to abandon him after ONE debate. He was at a disadvantage to begin with...HE cares about the truth, and his opponent does not.

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audrey wells's avatar

hey jeff—i've been unequivocally doublin' and triplin' down for joe this past year and last night was scarring plain and simple.

this is the straight up vibe i get with regard to joe biden's real frame of mind right now... he needs to go back to being ‘uncle joe’… it’s truly what lights him up… he doesn’t DIG being THE MAN… Kamala digs being THE MAN… and that’s it’s own problem.

in other words... EGOS & PSYCHOLOGICALS are runnin' joe's show and that's not to run him down but to call some balls and strikes in the name of saving democracy's thinning ass.

i dunno, my 2017 bird-dogging trump's rump for 4 years on the twitter, friend... [the good ol' nightmare days, if you will]... any thoughts on my take?

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Mary Schweitzer's avatar

It was awful. There wasn’t time to answer all his lies. And the newspapers and Democrats whining for a new candidate are nuts - it’s TOO LATE. It will all descend into arguing.

Biden has had our backs as president, and he has good advisors and experts.

Ya dance with the guy what brung ya.

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Cordeliane's avatar

Thanks, Jeff. I needed to hear it.

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Marian Goldsmith's avatar

Look so far as I'm concerned Joe Biden could have 10 "bad" nights and it still wouldn't cause me to drop him like a hot potato as those big time bozos at the New Quark Dimes did. Which I confess like the old girl dodo I am shocked me. But shouldn't have. It's like a rerun of the Hillary debacles they promoted which we all know: Benghazi, emails, and I (deliberately) forget one more, what? pink toilet paper? We keep paying the price of being a culture hooked on celebrity which often has little relationship to the real world except to promote (provoke?) oops (ooze) and aaahhs and mindless escapist entertainment. Nevermind content and consequences. Look folks a less than perfect performance ain't everything. These so called debates are mostly food (bait) for the masses. I assume readers of Jeff's Substack get it or they wouldn't be here. But American culture as a whole? It's just another version of snake.oil or a chicken in every pot which have been selling points in US elections forever. I made my points so I'll stop here. Thank you Jeff for helping to keep us sane and telling things like they are in such arresting and entertaining ways.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Thank you for being the voice of sanity Jeff. You are worth every bit to subscribe to.

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Linda Weide's avatar

THANKS!

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Carol's avatar

Thank you for putting some perspective out there. I’ll take the decent old guy with a cold over the raving demented liar any day of the week.

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Rick Calegari's avatar

No question. Poor Joe was ill and not at the top of his game but he answered all the questions unlike that babbling lying horseshit artist and got stronger further into the circus. The only thing CNN did right was to have that 10 feet of separation. Not because of Joe's cold but in regards to that thing on the fibbing fart master's head that we know never got all of its shots. Newsom provided a big boost to Biden afterwards and it's not time for the media naysayers to start bombarding the airwaves and print with their usual negative bullshit.

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Teri's avatar

Gavin Newsome's immediate post debate comments were comforting after Joe Biden's performance. He is set to speak soon in NC. MSNBC has a camera on the podium at 10am PST. I'm still 100 percent for Biden. @Lawrence points out, a POTUS never makes a decision in 2 minutes without staff & advisors being unable to provide info & input

#RidenWithBiden

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Rick Calegari's avatar

Well said Teri.

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shee-rah's avatar

Newsome could be the Democratic Party’s nominee in 2028. That’s why he’s getting in front of the cameras now. He’s got the experience as the Governor of the most populous state and looks presidential (and is not an old guy).

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Rick Calegari's avatar

Gov. Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan has also been mentioned.

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shee-rah's avatar

Yes, an excellent choice for our Prez in 2029.

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David Skoglund's avatar

shee-rah, I’d like to see Jamie Raskin’s name in the mix for 2028 as well.

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shee-rah's avatar

Yes! He would be excellent!

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Renie's avatar

My .02. Biden should have announced at the beginning he had a cold. His prep team should have given him more “phrases” to use when trump lied even using one of his time allotments to make a strong statement about it. All these Democrats talking to the media should only talk about Trump’s lies and outrageous statements. Ignore media questions about Biden being old (GOP ignores media questions all the time with no push back). Those saying Biden needs to step aside are hurting the party and you need to wonder what their objective is cuz they are helping the GOP and the media push their own agenda.

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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

100%

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Ema's avatar
Jun 28Edited

I agree completely Renie! I was unhappy to see the Alexander Vindmann's of Twitter post that if the election were held tomorrow, POTUS wouldn't win and that "hopefully he can recover". All of the loyalty, support and respect we have given to Vindmann went out the window with that comment and responses included many unfollowing him (including me). I'm done with the BS and suppositions. Biden is my President and candidate for the future. I was angry at Tapper's "President Trump" while at least Dana mostly said "former" President Trump. The political etiquette is to address a former President as Mr. and only the sitting President as President. And who could have foreseen MSNBC taking up most of their time after the debate to talk about Dems panicking? They should have taken that time to fact check Trump and call out all of his lies. With the exception of O'Donnell, it was a cluster including Wallace, Maddow and Reid. I didn't even watch to the end and today - no MSNBC or CNN for me.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

I agree! MSNBC was a disaster at the post debate reporting! Only O’Donnell kept a cool head

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Claudia Green's avatar

I do really enjoy the quietness of Lawrence O’Donnell. He often is much easier to listen too especially when things go wonky.

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James Starr's avatar

but Alexander Vindmann was sadly right. It is so frustrating right now.

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Jennifer Lennox's avatar

Yes! The whole thing is that the Dems need to change their messaging and back up Biden.

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Pope Buck I's avatar

I can easily imagine him chiming in with "WRONG!" every time - using PAB's own tactic against him.

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Laura Who's avatar

That would have been glorious!!

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bruce somers's avatar

You don't get into a lie-for-lie battle with DJT, he'll always win, because he's the king of BS.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

I went to bed with all the air knocked outta me. Today I feel better because it’s a choice between a dictatorship or a free country. Gavin is right of course. But what scares me is that Americans tend to be lazy and dumb. We have GOT to drive the point that if you vote for Trump, you’ll never vote again. Arrrggghhh!!!!!! 😭

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Charles Austin's avatar

We'll be all right.

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Gaily's avatar

I’m going to hang on to that sentiment; I have a few quite erudite friends who say the same thing.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

Will we? Dems are panicking, especially the talking heads

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Pope Buck I's avatar

That's what they do - chase every shiny object and turn every new development into a new crisis. Someone needs to turn a hose on them before they hurt themselves.

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JOSEPH PEDALINO, JR.'s avatar

Thats what talking heads do, they panic while not providing much of substance.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Yes, I miss actual journalism.

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JOSEPH PEDALINO, JR.'s avatar

Hard to find, especially the tv version. It can be found elsewhere, substack is a good start !

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Claudia Green's avatar

💙 Hope so. Glad to hear you are keeping the faith.

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Timothy Fifer's avatar

Amen, amen , amen. Thank you. We have to spread that message’

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Nancy Potter's avatar

Add to that the Supreme Court rulings released this morning, and with Trump in office we'll be entirely at the mercy of polluters and oligarchs. We've got to have somebody who can fight them, and Joe knows how.

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Sky 777's avatar

One word and a number: Project 2025. We have got to get people to understand what the first half of 2025 will look like if any Republican is elected president. And it will only get worse. There has been so little talk about this blue print for destroying our country. John Oliver did a show on it, it he should have provided links to the document as well as to Andra Walter’s SubStack “How Project 2025 Will Ruin Your Life”. Joyce Vance also had a column on it with frighteningly low numbers for how many USA voters have actually heard about it.

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David Skoglund's avatar

It’s always darkest before the dawn.

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Jeff Tiedrich's avatar

evidently the chat thread I started last night cause a lot of people's phones to blow up with far too many notifications. sorry about that.

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Kathy H's avatar

Hahaha! Had to find setting to turn notifications off, but could not bear the 'debate' alone. Thank you & all of the followers who are expressing this didn't change a fckn thing, we are even more sure we will ROCK ON!

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Sandy Simmons's avatar

It was the truth though.

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Nancy's avatar

Joke Tapper and Dana Bashful: “Thank you Mr. President” instead of “You’re a lying piece of shit” to every trump utterance. CNN is giving the Murdoch empire a real run for their money.

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MJ's avatar

What happened to the “ultimate professionals, Bash and Tapper!

You both absolutely sucked.

You’ve lost your vibe BIG TIME.

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arne link's avatar

They just did what they were told to do. They want to keep their cushy jobs. Simple, right?

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Jennifer Lennox's avatar

Why the hell are they calling Trump "Mr. President"?

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

It's customary to call a former President, "Mr. President." The only ex-president who resisted the custom was Harry Truman who insisted on being, “Mr Truman."

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Jennifer Lennox's avatar

Thanks, but I prefer how they do it in the court system, where he is referred to as "Mr. Trump" or just "Trump". However, if it's a customary thing, so be it.

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Dee Whitman's avatar

According to Miss Manners, the honorific "President" is to be used only for the current occupant of the WH; everyone else gets the honorific they held before becoming prez. (Miss M. has studied not just etiquette generally but also the political customs of the US.)

So: Mr. Trump (HA!), Sen. Obama, Gov. Bush, Gov. Clinton, and Gov. Carter.

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MJ's avatar

When have we recently done anything “customary?” That ship sailed

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David Skoglund's avatar

I still prefer Donito Assolini.

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Ethereal fairy Natalie's avatar

Because he probably insisted on it.

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Gail Dragoo's avatar

Yes, and what's this Mr. President stuff? He's a private citizen. I knew they would stoop that low.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

It's customary to call a former President, "Mr. President." The only ex-president who resisted the custom was Harry Truman who insisted on being, “Mr Truman."

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DonP's avatar

But that only applies when addressing the former President directly, and outside the presence of the current President.

In this case, it was inappropriate to refer to Whatshisname as "President" given the sitting President was there on stage.

It should have been "Mr. Trump", or even "Candidate Trump".

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

Would you please clarify what authority made that rule and what authority intends to enforce it? My impression is that Americans, who can only cope with the most simplified forms of etiquette, will simply opt for calling all ex-presidents "Mr. President."

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Dee Whitman's avatar

You're right that it has become customary, but it's incorrect, according to Miss Manners. The honorific "President" is to be used only for the current occupant of the WH; everyone else gets the honorific they held before becoming prez. (ETA: Miss M. has studied not just etiquette generally but also the political customs of the US.)

So: Mr. Trump (HA!), Sen. Obama, Gov. Bush, Gov. Clinton, and Gov. Carter.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

BTW, it is obvious that you prefer a rule that places Trump on a lower rung. If Harry S Truman is the only ex-president to refuse to be called Mr. President, then Ms Manners seeks to abolish a custom that was robust when she was in preschool. I do not trust Miss Manner's historical sense. Obviously, very few objected to the custom before Trump became an ex-president.

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Kathleen Weber's avatar

Your post prompted me to think how this question could be resolved. I first thought that Congress should pass a law, but that would clearly run afoul of the First Amendment. It seems to me the only way is for each news organization to choose a style and announce the style before such events as a presidential debate.

If you want to equalize things, I think it would make the most sense to call both men Candidate Biden/Trump, because neither of them is there in their presidential or post presidential capacity.

Although I have enjoyed Miss Manners for many decades, I have found her pronouncements frequently idiosyncratic and often complicated to implement.

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Pope Buck I's avatar

Imagine how bad it would have been if it hadn't been so "rigged for Biden!"

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Cassandra Here's avatar

CNN owes the American public an apology. And not one of those “gosh, we had no idea … blah, blah, blah.” They need to grovel.

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Tess's avatar

absofuckinglutely!!!!!!!!!

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Darrell Smith's avatar

Joe was not sleepy. He was surprised by the Gish gallop. That all Trump would do was lie out his ass about everything. Joe prepped for a debate. Maybe it was too much to expect even a little decorum out of King Trump.

Why the Gish gallop? Why the smokescreen of gibberish that is a complete fabrication? It is to hide the fact that Trump knows nothing and can do nothing.

Sadly, many women have been in a relationship with a nasty, abusive man who only lied to them. Who talked about getting rid of or even killing them. Who approached other women in front of them. Did that man love his woman? No, he had only contempt for her. The Donald has only contempt and malice towards America and all Americans, even the ones that support him.

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arne link's avatar

Well said and true. I hope that women save us once again. As always.

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Darrell Smith's avatar

We (America) are that woman. The bastard won't leave us alone. He is liable to do something terrible if he isn't stopped now.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

I can’t wait to never see or hear from him again

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DeeDee Reinert's avatar

We are doing everything we can. We are ANGRY. Trust me.

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

It is hard to debate a firehose of lies! Trump even took credit for Biden’s policies

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bruce somers's avatar

Trump probably mumbles 'radical Democrats' in his sleep.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

And who knows better than one of my heros, John Fetterman who knows what a bad debate performance is… he says “Chill the fuck out!” 👏👏👏

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Leslee Covington's avatar

I was at a Stan Ridgway concert a few years ago, in a smallish venue with tables and chairs. There was a guy in the front row right in front of Stan who persisted in standing up in Stan’s face and shouting and singing, disrupting everyone else’s enjoyment. Stan stopped his song and said, “Sit down, you big fucking idiot - this is MY show!” The crowd cheered. Maybe Joe should have said that to the Dumpster.

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Susan Niemann's avatar

😂😂😂 Yes!

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Timothy Fifer's avatar

I like it, “chill the fuck out “ the way you can’t say it on TV, or you’ll get bleeped out.

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Laura Who's avatar

1000%!!!

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Tess's avatar

Nailed it Jeff! The “moderators” only know how to read a question…not how to respond to LIES. Thank you for the hope! And hope President Biden gets rid of his cold soon so he can nail that asswipe!

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Charles Austin's avatar

The both of them sucked. If you see them in public, please embarrass the shit out of them!

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Lynn O’Neal's avatar

Posted such on their pages

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Chet Brandt's avatar

I used to respect them both—- that respect fell down the cellar steps last night…

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Old Man's avatar

Moderators is too nice a term for them. Enablers is more like it. No push back on lies. None. Ziltch

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Tess's avatar

Totally agree!

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Nancy Potter's avatar

Republicans played the refs ahead of time, saying Bash and Tapper would be debating Trump just as hard as Biden. I don't know if that kept them from challenging some of Trump's lies in real time, or if they always intended to be question-spouting potted plants.

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Carol C's avatar

They did not respond to non-answers, either.

At one point, after answering Trump’s claim, Biden did return to answer the question.

If only the moderators had pressed Trump to explain HOW the illegal immigrants would be rounded up and deported in the millions.

If only someone had explained that it is American consumers who would be paying the 10% tariffs on all imports.

I hope the Gish gallop is explained all over the place. The number of lies that can be uttered in two minutes requires far more than two minutes to be countered with the truth.

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Bonnie Boyce's avatar

“Black jobs”????? Is his royal assness considering Tim Scott for a possible junior landscaper position at mar a lago?

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Charles Austin's avatar

😂😂

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Carol C's avatar

As Jeff said, what is a Black job?

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Marsha's avatar

Trump told every one of his lies since 2015 - and just strung them all together - even if they were not related. This was not a debate - cause you can't debate lies.

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Burke's avatar

It wasn't a "debate". It was never going to be a debate. It was a political entertainment event. A Debate requires two sides who speak in Good Faith. Serious. Honest. Thoughtful arguments grounded in facts. Donald doesn't speak Good Faith. He doesn't understand Good Faith. He and his conspirators in Trump World use Bad Faith as a weapon, a tool.

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Burke's avatar

The mass media Press is baffled when Donald says "The riot on Jan 6 was Nancy's fault." But the truth is simple and public. Young Donald and Young Roger Stone were mentored by Roy Cohn, the mob lawyer, the devious brain behind Joe McCarthy and Nixon on the UnAmerican Activities Committee. Roy was an expert at Deception, Propaganda, and using Bad Faith to win. This bit of history isn't hidden. Easy even for an investigative reporter to find.

So the next time CNN or NYT or Fox News or MSNBC or WAPO or NBC, CBS, ABC characterize Donald as a serious politician, a Real Candidate for public service, a trustworthy opponent in a Debate, a legitimate leader of the GOP and RNC, you will know that they are complicit in upholding and supporting the alternate reality that is spun by Trump World. It is all, ALL, a scam. A con game. In the open. Trump World is not a political movement. It is Theft by Deception.

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Laura Who's avatar

I’ve been saying this for years. TFGs father was completely embroiled in mob business. Donny fuckface learned from the best of the worst.

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Burke's avatar

And the Press grants respect and deference to Donald and Roger and Steve and Manafort and the rest of the slimy core of Trump World. In the face of their obvious mob/con/fraud/criminal behavior. They ain't even hiding it! What the hell?

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JOSEPH PEDALINO, JR.'s avatar

You are spot on !

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bruce somers's avatar

Cohn told and taught Trump to always 'Deny,delay,distract',and of course,attack, attack,attack. Trump has used this tactic since 1973,when the DOJ had evidence Trump and Daddy were putting the letter 'N' on African Americans housing applications,and Roy Cohn sued the DOJ for $100 hundred million dollars, sounds familiar??

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Burke's avatar

Yup. All of this is in the public domain. Wiki has some darn good articles on Cohn and the Trump family and Roger Stone, et al. So researching for an "expose" documentary or multi-part news feature would be very easy. These crooks hide in the light. When a local or national news reporter or pundit gives Donald any respect it makes me cringe. Not long ago, he would have been referred to by the legit press as Donald the Liar. Or Donald the Conman. Or Donald the Entertainer. Now he's Mister Former President, Sir. And he calls them the "Enemies of the State"! Don't they realize if he gets power again, he's going after them!

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Lynn Stolp's avatar

I didn't watch the "debate" because it wasn't actually a debate. It couldn't be with a serial lying psychotic serial liar! I hear that Joe had a bad night. Heather Cox Richardson gave a great explantion of the Gish Gallop. I'm not going to read anything on any of the dipshit main stream media outlets because it's all bull shit performance reviews, and Vonshitzinpantz gets to continue to lie unchecked. I'm going with Gavin Newsome's POV, and that of my own governor, who are taking the long view and suggesting it might be wiser to vote for the record and not the performance. We vote for the performance at our own peril. Oh, and by the way, for all the Democrats who are screaming for Joe to step down, I respond "Shut the fuck up and sit the fuck down, you idiots".

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Sharon C Storm's avatar

I agree 100%! Joe had a bad night, he’ll make up for it soon. Since he has had a bad stutter since he was a child, I was surprised it wasn’t worse with his cold.

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Gaily's avatar

Oooo… “vote for the record, not the performance.” Short, sweet and a perfect summation of how to continue our messy but amazing democracy. I like it 🥰

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Carol C's avatar

Steven Hawking would have had a bad night, too.

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Charles Austin's avatar

👍👍👍

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Lynn Van Haren's avatar

👏👏👏bravo!

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Mary Hall's avatar

Jeff Tiedrich, my therapist. Thanks for keeping me sane.

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SuNew's avatar

My dearest hope is that Americans are smarter than I think they are.

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arne link's avatar

Gosh, hoping.

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Catherine's avatar

That is a scary proposition 😱

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SuNew's avatar

I KNOW!

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